mountainmatt wrote:

Small Tail Caddy wrote:Would I buy another stinson.....DAMN straight I would.....but I also have this craving for a maule.

Just throw a big bore motor in there Terry and that craving will go away.

Which additive do you use?

Roger on the big bore!
MMO, it has also helped my fuel selector and primer.

Here's what I used Matt when forced to run 100LL...

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/a ... cortcp.php

The key is it scavenges the lead so it doesn't have a chance to funk up your valves. As an added bonus it's even approved by the FAA, unlike many of the little tricks used to keep these old birds flying. When using mogas I still used MMO as a detergent and I because I liked the way it smells.

Vick,
I didn't think you could find that any more. From what I understand, it works better than MMO? How much do you use per 10 gal?

There was a period that you couldn't get it, but AircraftSpruce is carrying it again. I forget the exact ratio, it's something like a couple of ounces per 10 gallons - the bottle explains it pretty clearly.

As I understood it, TCP and MMO do different things. TCP actually "gets the lead out", as proven by the gray dust you'll find aft of your exhaust. MMO is just generally good for the engine and components as a detergent and lubricant. Some might contest the benefits but I certainly never had any adverse effects from using MMO, so it certainly didn't hurt.

The key for the Franklin, as you mentioned, is to run it hard. Tooling around at 2k rpm is asking for trouble and the prohibited RPM band with a metal prop (is it 2250-2350?) pretty much leaves you with running it at 2600 - which I conveniently found yielded 100KIAS @ 10gph.

Vick wrote:There was a period that you couldn't get it, but AircraftSpruce is carrying it again. I forget the exact ratio, it's something like a couple of ounces per 10 gallons - the bottle explains it pretty clearly.

As I understood it, TCP and MMO do different things. TCP actually "gets the lead out", as proven by the gray dust you'll find aft of your exhaust. MMO is just generally good for the engine and components as a detergent and lubricant. Some might contest the benefits but I certainly never had any adverse effects from using MMO, so it certainly didn't hurt.

The key for the Franklin, as you mentioned, is to run it hard. Tooling around at 2k rpm is asking for trouble and the prohibited RPM band with a metal prop (is it 2250-2350?) pretty much leaves you with running it at 2600 - which I conveniently found yielded 100KIAS @ 10gph.

Awesome! I'm on it...like stink on shit.

Good stuff to know, thanks. Looks like a quart can will last for 310 gallons for 100LL, not too bad and I guess if you can't get mogas, it's the way to go.

Tadpole,
Tom V out at Springs Avn has a Pacer 150. I think he keeps it in Canon City and gives lessons/endorsements. I have flown it a few times. Might want to get in touch with him and go fly it so you had some firsthand knowledge.

centennial wrote:Tadpole,
Tom V out at Springs Avn has a Pacer 150. I think he keeps it in Canon City and gives lessons/endorsements. I have flown it a few times. Might want to get in touch with him and go fly it so you had some firsthand knowledge.

I've tried that route many, many times, he never returns my calls or messages...I've even had a friend of his talk to him and assured me that he'd call and never does. It's got a 160hp in it too from I've been told. I was told he wanted to sell it, not sure what ever happened.

Tadpole,
I have had two different stinsons, one a stock 165 metalized, the other with the 0-435 190hp metalized. Both were wonderful airplanes. Like any underpowered (they all are up here in Del Norte) you had to fly them wisely. Loved them both. Went from one to the other as the family grew (then the 180, now a TU-206). The 165 stinson is still owned locally, the other went to Montana to be re engined and spends a great deal of time in the backcountry. IMHO, if you could find one with the o-360, that would be the cats meow. I did a Pilot checkout to Marble with a guy in a 150 pacer that scared the crap out of me. Early fall morning, just the two of us, half fuel, no gear and just barely enough performance to get out of there. It seemed to accelerate ok, just as she got light on the wheels (I was feeling ok at this point), he reaches down and fully extends the flaps. The airplane kinda popped off the ground and just wallowed along. We made it but I am not really sure how. We crossed the willows at the end at about 5 feet. Luckily it is all down hill from there. Once I got my voice back, I asked about his "technique". "that's the way I do short field takeoff's in Oklahoma". I am not a Pacer fan.

flynbeekeeper wrote:Tadpole,
I have had two different stinsons, one a stock 165 metalized, the other with the 0-435 190hp metalized. Both were wonderful airplanes. Like any underpowered (they all are up here in Del Norte) you had to fly them wisely. Loved them both. Went from one to the other as the family grew (then the 180, now a TU-206). The 165 stinson is still owned locally, the other went to Montana to be re engined and spends a great deal of time in the backcountry. IMHO, if you could find one with the o-360, that would be the cats meow. I did a Pilot checkout to Marble with a guy in a 150 pacer that scared the crap out of me. Early fall morning, just the two of us, half fuel, no gear and just barely enough performance to get out of there. It seemed to accelerate ok, just as she got light on the wheels (I was feeling ok at this point), he reaches down and fully extends the flaps. The airplane kinda popped off the ground and just wallowed along. We made it but I am not really sure how. We crossed the willows at the end at about 5 feet. Luckily it is all down hill from there. Once I got my voice back, I asked about his "technique". "that's the way I do short field takeoff's in Oklahoma". I am not a Pacer fan.

Thanks Tom! Yes, I'd love to be able to go to Marble one day. While I'd love to find one with a bigger engine like the O-360, that's going to be out of the budget for a few years and I don't think I can be that patient!

I've had my 108-1 with a 150 Franklin for 8 years. I've had a few hours in a tri-pacer many years ago so not really able to compare. I use avgas and religiously add TCP and MMO and get clean plugs at every annual. I lean agressively during taxi and in flight and I believe that has a great deal to do with that. I'll throw another tweek into this argument. Safety. Early last month I had 4 inches come off one blade of the prop in flight. Got the plane safely on the ground at an airport I had just departed. Broke all four motor mounts, cracked the carb heat box, snapped the carb heat control cable off, and broke off one of the muffler brackets. Because the franklin has the motor mounts under the engine instead of at the back the block could not twist itself off the cradle the engine is attached to. The power was at idle for 45 seconds before I cut it and glided in, so that may have been a factor too. If the engine had gone to full power it may still have departed the frame. The point is that Stinsons are tough birds. We replaced the mounts, put a another carb heat box and a prop on and fired her up. She ran smooth as silk and no oil leaks. Got her back to her hangar and will do a much more thorough check this month. They have a very solid frame around the cockpit. My A&P says they are the plane he prefers to fly his family in for that reason. He flies his into Moose Creek every year and has no problem getting what gear he needs in and out. There are a number of engine mods that are available that make it a rocket on climbout. Smooth controls and slotted wing also make slow flight a lot more fun. Good luck with your decision.
Mark

I have some time in a PA-22/20-150, which was owned by a succession of friends. It was a great performer- light,fast, slow when you wanted it to be, and roomy (esp for it's size). This or a 160-horse version (or a 180!) is what I would want if I were to get rid of my C150/150TD. The 150 is sporty to fly, but so is the Pacer, and with 4 seats the Pacer is more versatile. Flown as a 2-seater, the Pacer has 2 baggage doors & a huge baggage area. Plenty of mods available-- VG's, wing extensions,various wingtips, LH door, skylight,PA18 tailfeathers,etc-- and a well-supported closest-thing-to-bulletproof Lycoming engine. Another friend of mine is building a lightweight Pacer from the ground up with several of these mods & it's gonna be really nice.
FWIW I'd vote for the Pacer every time, but to be fair I've only flown a Stinson 108 once.

Eric

I see your budget is about $25K, if it were a little more, there is a great performing 108-3 with a 220 Franklin and floats for sale on Barnstormers. I owned that plane up until a year ago, and the performance is just awesome. One thing I would consider if I were you is possibly waiting another year or so until you can afford the plane you really want long-term. Buying and selling planes working your way up the food chain can be a real pain and cost you more money than just getting the "final" plane first.

Rhyppa wrote:I see your budget is about $25K, if it were a little more, there is a great performing 108-3 with a 220 Franklin and floats for sale on Barnstormers. I owned that plane up until a year ago, and the performance is just awesome. One thing I would consider if I were you is possibly waiting another year or so until you can afford the plane you really want long-term. Buying and selling planes working your way up the food chain can be a real pain and cost you more money than just getting the "final" plane first.

No floats are allowed in Colorado... Sucks. I would love a -3 with a bigger engine in it.

I actually agree with your advice there, but it's so damned hard being patient. Really. I'm so sick of renting and all the club B.S. It probably makes sense every way you look at it to wait and that's probably what will happen anyway. My wife today said she'll start working harder on getting all this stuff we have to sell on eBay listed faster, and she did just that today...she's awesome. Right now it'll probably take 3 years to sell all of this stuff off....and we've been selling at a really good pace already.

Tadpole,
If you go the Stinson route, go fly a small tail vs the big tail. My 165 was big tail the other a -2. I prefered the small tail. The -3 flew like a dream, but somewhat limited in strong xwinds. The -2 was one of the best xwind taildraggers I have flown.

d

Tadpole, possible the current owner would sell without the floats? or you could buy with floats and then sell the floats. I sure do recommend waiting and get exactly what you want. You will save a bunch of money in the long run that way. Ask me how I know.

But Russ, if it wasn't for your need to upgrade I wouldn't have a nice little modded out Champ. See, it isn't all bad.
Keith