Good looking bird there. I'll be doing a bunch more research before any trigger is pulled. Still thinking a pacer would fit my bill in AK quite well.

At those DA's horsepower and weight are going to matter a lot.
I would suggest you look for the highest power, lightest weight aircraft you can find to meet your budget and mission. The 180hp 175 would be such a plane. Rate of climb isn't a bad indicator either.

agreed. just not sure if I can afford that much. might play it safe and get a time builder and steer clear of the DA as much as I can. all the while learning due to the inability to "power through it"

Bang for the buck I would get a Pacer!! From what I am reading you need a plane to learn to fly in. A pacer is a GREAT training airplane! Make sure it has brakes on both sides because the CFI will have to save you a few times early on. After that it carries a big load, handles like a dream in the air, low entry price and will make a real pilot of you once the wheels touch the ground!! I picked up my pacer before I took a single lesson. Put 400 hours on it and now have a cub and Cessna 180. If I lost them both and needed a plane I would look at every pacer I could find!! I took mine all over Alaska, 12,000 ft is not a problem just takes some time to get too it. Now as MTV mentioned the DA is a big issue with a short wing. So don't go to 12 grand and expect to pull a load off any strip. A cessna 170 is a great plane also!! One of the guys I fly with take's his 170 to all but the short strips my cub go's and he is faster!! I carry a bigger load but you are talking trainer. Stenson is a nice plane and do very well but can snowball quickly. The easy trainer plane is most likely a 170 and metal does well without a hanger (except hail). If you are buying to learn. Find a 25-30 grand pacer/170 learn to fly (3-4 hundred hours) sell it for a small loss and buy the plane for your next mission.
DENNY

Denny, very much agree with your thoughts. Biggest issue is gonna be money. Depending on what insurance is, and what the bank/wife allows I might not be able to afford a solid pacer/c170 when figuring in the insurance, hanger, expected and unexpected maintenance. Might have to drop down and say forget the DA flying and focus on purely time building. Not sure

If you picture is you, then you are young, you don't need no stinking hanger!! Get up early, sweep snow pre-heat and go. Insurance, just get liability, if you wreck it work nights to pay it off you can sleep when you die!! The big question is how are you going to get the wife to come to ALASKA?????

Lots of experience in all three types here in Southern CO. A close friend from OK would bring his pacer up here for the summer. 150hp and a dog, not enough wing. It hasn't been back for three summers. To my knowledge, there are no pacers based anywhere close.
I have owned two 108's. First one a 165 hp -3, sold it because it was barely a two person airplane here in the summer. Second one a -2, but with the Lyc O-435. That airplane flew great. That is the airplane that we started camping with the family. Three little kids and gear, no problem. Sold it due to engine parts concerns (and growing kids). Only one 108 based close and it has not flown in years.
Cessna 170/172: quite a few 0-300 powered, early birds based and flying around here. I have seen them come and go at all of the backcountry strips around. Just have to be smart about it. I know, the 0-300 scares a few off, but those early airframes are so light they kick ass on later models.
My first airplane was a 172. That would be my advice to you. 2/3 the price of a 170, park it outside. Cheap! At this point in your life, time spent flying is more important than the "taildragger sex appeal" thing. Always easy to trade up later.
Tom

Are there no wing options for the pacer? That might be a quick solution to high da.
Reality is we almost all suffer from high da/turbulence and I don't know many people that fly much after lunch. It's just part of it. Doesn't matter how big your engine is when the wind starts ripping. True your margin is wider with a big engine but there's still a margin.

DENNY wrote:If you picture is you, then you are young, you don't need no stinking hanger!! Get up early, sweep snow pre-heat and go. Insurance, just get liability, if you wreck it work nights to pay it off you can sleep when you die!! The big question is how are you going to get the wife to come to ALASKA?????

I thought that one through well. She is born and raised there!!!

flynbeekeeper wrote:....My first airplane was a 172. That would be my advice to you. 2/3 the price of a 170, park it outside. Cheap! At this point in your life, time spent flying is more important than the "taildragger sex appeal" thing. Always easy to trade up later.

Good advise.

formandfunction wrote:Are there no wing options for the pacer? That might be a quick solution to high da.
Reality is we almost all suffer from high da/turbulence and I don't know many people that fly much after lunch. It's just part of it. Doesn't matter how big your engine is when the wind starts ripping. True your margin is wider with a big engine but there's still a margin.

You can do extended wing tips for the Pacer, they are quite an extension and do make a difference

Battson wrote:

formandfunction wrote:Are there no wing options for the pacer? That might be a quick solution to high da.
Reality is we almost all suffer from high da/turbulence and I don't know many people that fly much after lunch. It's just part of it. Doesn't matter how big your engine is when the wind starts ripping. True your margin is wider with a big engine but there's still a margin.

You can do extended wing tips for the Pacer, they are quite an extension and do make a difference

this is the thing I think I like about the pacers, a lot of stc's for things. I build cars for a hobby now (and I thought that was expensive) so I generally can't leave stock things stock for long.

I like the idea of the pacer as it could be pretty stock and mild to begin with, and as time and experience grows, I can upgrade, change and make it more suitable for the bush.

Long wing = more drag, more drag = less performance at altitude. To a certain point. You need power to pull that longer wing thru the air.

You could probably pick up a tripacer for a decent price and convert it to TW later. I know of one close to me for $11000. Needs a wing recovered, but if you are going to extend them anyways...

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Changing a round tip wing to a square tip can add both speed and lift to a wing. Because now the wing is not working so hard, the round tip is just not as effective as a square tire wing. Dakota cub found this when they made the similar wing for the Supercub. I would NOT buy any starter airplane with intent of making it better!!! That is a money pit!!! Buy the plane you need for the mission today!!! For a starter plane a good 172 or Tripacer would be fine(lots of square tip pacers/tripacers around). Buy the trainer and learn to fly. Spend NO MONEY on changing the plane!!!! Sell it when the training mission is done and then spend the money on a plane for the next mission!!!
DENNY

DENNY wrote:Changing a round tip wing to a square tip can add both speed and lift to a wing. Because now the wing is not working so hard, the round tip is just not as effective as a square tire wing. Dakota cub found this when they made the similar wing for the Supercub. I would NOT buy any starter airplane with intent of making it better!!! That is a money pit!!! Buy the plane you need for the mission today!!! For a starter plane a good 172 or Tripacer would be fine(lots of square tip pacers/tripacers around). Buy the trainer and learn to fly. Spend NO MONEY on changing the plane!!!! Sell it when the training mission is done and then spend the money on a plane for the next mission!!!
DENNY

Excellent advice!

G44 wrote:

DENNY wrote:Changing a round tip wing to a square tip can add both speed and lift to a wing. Because now the wing is not working so hard, the round tip is just not as effective as a square tire wing. Dakota cub found this when they made the similar wing for the Supercub. I would NOT buy any starter airplane with intent of making it better!!! That is a money pit!!! Buy the plane you need for the mission today!!! For a starter plane a good 172 or Tripacer would be fine(lots of square tip pacers/tripacers around). Buy the trainer and learn to fly. Spend NO MONEY on changing the plane!!!! Sell it when the training mission is done and then spend the money on a plane for the next mission!!!
DENNY

Excellent advice!

X2!!! Too many people try to jump into their dream with both feet and a empty wallet. I think most of us have probably done the same and have learned from it. Nothing wrong with getting a 172 or Tripacer to build time in. They are much cheaper to insure, maintain, and learn the basics until you can fly them like they are a part of you.

I started this game 30+ years ago with similar aspirations, I wanted to end up with a Beaver on amphibs flying in Alaska! LMAO...like that was ever going to happen. Unfortunately life sometimes hands you rotten apples and changes those dreams. An accident that shattered my commercial pilot dreams didn't dissuade me from flying for fun and recreation, but it sure changed the direction of my future.

Bought a 172 30 years ago and figured I would upgrade in a couple years. I still have that same 172 but have had other planes over the years also. It's been a good trustworthy plane and cheap to own. I don't think one should discount a nose-draggger for building time and experience.

WWhunter wrote:X2!!! Too many people try to jump into their dream with both feet and a empty wallet. I think most of us have probably done the same and have learned from it. Nothing wrong with getting a 172 or Tripacer to build time in. They are much cheaper to insure, maintain, and learn the basics until you can fly them like they are a part of you.

How is a 172 or Tripacer any cheaper to maintain than a 170 or a Pacer?

X2 on just buy a plane and go fly. A 172 or a pacer, a 170 or a tripacer (who cares) and fly the pants off it.

There is so much that you don't know that you don't know when you buy your first plane.

Buy carefully, with lots of help and the value of any of those planes is pretty fixed. Maintain it it, insure it and fly it.

Looking back now I see how lucky I was with my first purchase. Says much more abut the sellers integrity than my knowledge - which was zero.

While I whole heartedly agree that a 172 is a reliable cost affective time builder it won't teach a person the skill set needed for a tailwheel. If you want to fly tailwheel it's best to fly a tailwheel. You can go from a tailwheel to a trike with a few landings but not the other way around. I trained,solo and got my ticket that way and wouldn't change that for anything. The cost of trike insurance is a tick cheaper but that's about the only savings I see.