Does anyone know who has the STC to put a 86in blackmack on a 206 land plane?

As I recall it is some private guy with no website.
It also requires the landis nose fork and 8.50 witch we already have.

pponk has one for seaplanes but it only alows up to 84in on wheels.

I would like an MT but the plane works of unimproved strips and I dont think the mt is tuff enough for the lack of clearance 206.
hartzell wants to sell us a 82 in simitar but im sure the mack pulls harder and hauling big loads out of small strips is all that matters for this machine.

Black Mac doesn't show in any STC title...maybe the actual model of the prop would turn something up. A google search of Black Mac prop Cessna 206 turned up some results. One company does them, but not on 206s, another one does if you have an IO-550.

I do have the IO-550

Stop teasing me tadpole who is it?

ccurrie wrote:I do have the IO-550

Stop teasing me tadpole who is it?

I guess I could google it again for you....hold on...

http://www.davisaviationservices.net/Cessna_206

The way that reads is it's part of their STC to put on the 550, so who knows. I don't know what a black mac is, I just used google for ya when you posted your question, haha. I looked in the STCs for 206s, but it's a long list and I'm not sure which McCauley prop the Black Mac is.

the 401 and 402 series
I dont see the prop diamiter anywhere on there website but i will call them in the am and see.

Btw dont think i haven't googled every posible angle and so far 84in is the biggest i have found, but we will see in the am.

I'm pretty sure 84 inches is it for the land plane as I had a friend that wanted the 86 for floats but passed when he found out it wouldn't work for wheels. As for the MT, unless you're out chopping wood with it, that stainless leading edge wears better than an aluminum prop in my experience.

Rhyppa wrote:I'm pretty sure 84 inches is it for the land plane as I had a friend that wanted the 86 for floats but passed when he found out it wouldn't work for wheels. As for the MT, unless you're out chopping wood with it, that stainless leading edge wears better than an aluminum prop in my experience.

Ditto on the MT durability. The leading edge on the MT is stainless steel. That holds up MUCH better than aluminum, some of which you lose at every periodic inspection, when your mechanic files some of that precious metal away....

And, consider that in northern Alaska, there's an operator that is running Beech 1900s on and off a lot of gravel strips. Those airplanes have composite props (or at least were for a long time). Before I went to the MT prop, I asked their chief of maintenance about maintenance issues on the 1900's, since those things have really powerful PT-6s running props fairly close to the gravel, and dual wheels right behind those props.... His response was that is just hadn't been an issue. Blade face damage (the side that faces you) is repaired with a bit of epoxy resin to re-seal. Leading edge damage--simply not a problem.

MTV

My only problem with the MT on the 206 was the price and loss of weight on the nose. My Loaded CG moved to far Aft for my operations.

I can see the aft weight issue happening on the 206 with its large rear baggage and larger envelope. it works in your favor on the 18X series and against you with the 206. With floats on the 206, especially amphibs, I would think the lighter MT would be ideal.

One thing about maintainability of the Black Max prop. The hubs wear in dirty conditions. McCauley has similar hub designs on their new props. It is not a grease hub like the Hartzel. My experience with Caravans is the composite prop, in the worst conditions can get beat up and repaired. They always make overhaul. The only blade I have ever had condemn was from a fire. Conversely with the McCauley prop, same installation on Caravans, the blades condemn, due to edge wear limits (very small damage repair criteria) and the hub condemns due to fretting corrosion. I'm not talking one or two here, I have several Caravans I lease out and it is a trend.

I don't have any personal experience with the MT, but several of our customers have them (I own a repair station as well) and they rave about them. The damage repair criteria is quite generous. On Hartzel composite props, you can have gashes down to the foam. Just mix up some Hysol and micro balloons (little glass bubbles to lighten the epoxy). Let set, sand and paint. If you have issues with the leading edge, which can be cracking or delimitation, it can be replaced by the prop shop. You can actually have cracks in many places, except the lower inch or so. You can't replace the leading edge on a metal prop, one good rock ding and it can be a replacement. Hartzel has more meat to remove on their prop than McCauley usually does. You can ask the prop shop for repair limits on the actual props you are looking at to judge for yourself. The amounts can be surprising.

So if I was working out in the bush with the plane and prop erosion was an issue, I would lean toward a composite prop, or a prop with a grease hub. The McCauley prop is better suited to a paved runway environment, even though it may be a better performing prop. Personally, when I get around to doing the prop on my 185, it will change to either the Hartzel Scimitar or the MT, I get good discounts on both, I just want to fly each before I buy. Sometimes, the performance can be wasted by your individual needs and flying style. Since it may not benefit the flight envelope you favor.

Thanks dogpilot.

dogpilot,

By all means fly the Hartzell scimitar props before you buy. Nuff said.

MTV

MTV, have you flown one? I'd love to hear. Nobody has come in with one, which could be a sign in itself. We have had several of the MT's come in, a few of the Black Max, but none of the Hartzel's.

I Have the mt on my 170 and love it but a 170 on bushwheels has way more prop clearance than the 206. With the 550 it would help the W&B as it is nose heavy now, What im afraid of is delaminating a leading edge , a prop shop is not an option, for three months a year no 206 means no food,no toilet paper, no beer ect. Down time is not an option.
The mac has mowed willows before and im sure will again.

Man, don't say you mowed anything with your prop. Check the new rules for prop strikes, tall grass qualifies now. So unless you want to tear down your engine....

Now that said, I must admit to a lot of skepticism when the AC's came out, but since we do around 60 damaged aircraft a year at the shop, we see a lot. So I have kind of come around on this subject to agree with the AC. We have been finding a lot of deformation the mag drives and the oil pump drives. A lot more than we realized there would be. Especially since we really didn't look before. Wish we had been.

I really wouldn't worry about leading edge de laminations, unless you hit a lot of stuff. Then you actually have bigger problems than just the prop. I have over 30,000+ hours fleet operations (since 1990) with Caravans and composite props. I have only removed one prop from service for a leading edge issue. It was a rock strike that took a chunk over 1/4" (the limit) of the trailing edge of the leading edge steel part. I have removed scores of props on the King Airs (which I no longer work with or lease out) and the McCauley's on the Caravans, from rock hits. You can only dress out so much in the field. Now this is African operations, a bit more challenging to the equipment than Northern Canada. Lots of unfriendly wildlife there, but how often have you had a Hyena bite your tire and give it a flat (I had apparently run over something tasty, I guess)? They even bit the tip tank of a buddies Comanche when he was doing an overnight in the Mara, heck of a mess.

All said, use the prop your comfortable with. It must be a match to your operating style and environment.

the prop that went through the willows tried going through a mountain soon after so a prop strike inspection is the least of its wories, Im just saying shrubs made no noticeable impact on it im not sure if the MT would be the same.

That being said, I talked to Larry at flight resource the other day about this, an he told me they have one STCd now with a nickle leading edge that is even stronger than the stainless so maybe that is the answer. we just cant aford downtime so im not sure what to do. In every other way the MT wins hands down.

I have the 82in Hartzel Simitar on my 550 206. Pulls like crazy across the whole flight envelope. I have had a funny vibration that I couldn't get out by prop balancing. When I tore down my factory engine I found a connecting rod 14 grams heavier than the rest and the 5th order balancer worn. Precision balanced crank and connecting rods and now will see this week if I can get rid of that shake. 1800 hours and never have had to paint the leading edge. The blade design reduces vorticies and debris being pulled into the blade. I also own and run a 206 with the Hartzel Seaplane prop by Alaska propeller service. Thick blades with no helix, impressive hole shot but stops pulling at 80-90mph. round tips and high erosion but have had a long life because of the meat on the blades. Wont pass the next OH.

we have 30 hours on the precision balanced rebuilt 550 now. I only flew the first 3 and my wife has flown the rest. So far the plane feels smoother, Passengers claim it is much smoother, She says"I dont know" (thanks for the help Babe). So far some of the vibration indicators, Alt belt and oil cooler, are not showing any signs. Now that everything is broke in and has its layer of carbon I will balance the prop. I havent flown it since the first 3 hours but it still seemed to have some of the the low RPM resonance 2200rpm/24in. At 2500 it was smooth.