http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2010/pf/1008/gallery.most_dangerous_jobs/4.html

Fatality rate: 57.1 per 100,000

Sure like to know where that median income figure comes from. I'm sure my data wasn't included.

I like this:

"but she was still over-loaded because, in addition to gear, they had packed up four or five caribou"

I guess I could only take two Caribou in the 150

Meat Servo wrote:Sure like to know where that median income figure comes from. I'm sure my data wasn't included.

Half of that isn't even close to the median for Part 135 or 91 guys. I made close to that at the end, but that was after a lot of years and working my way up. A new Sled driver is gonna make about $35 a flight hour, and live in a shack, I mean pilot house, that would be condemned down Lower 48.

Gump

Heck I owned the air taxi and didn't make that much. Heidi Ruess and husband Herman were known for giving float ratings in their T crate. Her 135 time flying for Ketchum didn't turn out so well as she admits to. Herman flew bigger IFR stuff.

Meat Servo wrote:Sure like to know where that median income figure comes from. I'm sure my data wasn't included.

GumpAir wrote:live in a shack, I mean pilot house, that would be condemned down Lower 48.

I believe they're refered to as "log cabins" on the bulletin boards you usually find them listed on. Nothing like a three walled outhouse at -20!

Brett

There's no logs for a log house in Northwest/Arctic Alaska. It's tarpaper and a honey bucket.

Gump

Wait a minute, I must have a death wish.
At # 4 I'm a pilot but don't get paid to fly. Does that make me live longer or just live poorer?

At # 5 I am a farmer. 34000 median income would have looked damn good some years. Fortunately I can average that in with my pilot wages. Never was too good at math.

Lucky for me I can also average my life expectance with...
#6 Roofer. Because I'm shingling the roof on my own house. 3 stories high but I cheated and got someone from town to help. Does that cut my chances of dying in half?

Actually, NIOSH found a few years ago that COMMERCIAL flying in Alaska was ranked number ONE most dangerous job, in fact well exceeding commercial fishing.

MTV

UH-60andC-180 wrote:

GumpAir wrote:live in a shack, I mean pilot house, that would be condemned down Lower 48.

I believe they're refered to as "log cabins" on the bulletin boards you usually find them listed on. Nothing like a three walled outhouse at -20!

Brett

Ha! Around here they advertise them as "bungalo's".

It's all good though, not many folks having as much fun at work as some of us are.

GumpAir wrote:There's no logs for a log house in Northwest/Arctic Alaska. It's tarpaper and a honey bucket.

Gump

I was always around the big city of Fairbanks, so it was plywood, trashbags, duct tape, and a five gallon bucket. Beautiful views while you were sitting on the pot though.

Brett

The study on the most dangerous jobs in America, regarding airplane pilots is a bit vague. There are so many different aspects of aviation. I am willing to bet Aerial Firefighting would surpass Alaska Aviation on a per hour flown basis. Nothing to be proud of. The statistics should be hours/yr flown. We had 8 fatalities in 2006 alone, 5 in 08' and 4 in 09'. The fire season averages only 1/2 of a year, and pilot time flown averages an intense 200-300 hours during that time in California. Probably a 1/3 of the flight time commercial pilots flying Ag or in Alaska. Yes, the majority of Fire Pilots are NOT government employees.

The fatality rate really sucks. When you consider flying down the fireline at an average of 130-140 kts., 1.2 Vso, at gross, if you make a mistake at 150' AGL you are about 2 seconds from hitting the ground. But the training and equipment for the Calfire Program, at least, is light-years better than 10 years ago. Our accident rate has gone down considerably. With only 50 pilots for Calfire, and maybe 300 nationwide, you know each other well. Based on CNN stats, if we ever had 100,000 pilots our fatality rate would be 2,700-3,000 per 100,000. Yikes!

And good luck trying to get life insurance. We can only get it from Lloyds Of London. At some ridiculous premium I'm glad I don't have to pay.

I hope the non-flying spouses don't read that CNN report! They may not want fly in anything with wings!

You guys make me feel like a whimp...

Bob

Actually it's number 3 on the list. It's on the fourth page of the article, but the first page is all introductory. The Most Dangerous Job is listed on page 2.

Sure glad I quit farming! That gets me off the list on that count anyway. Now I just have flying to worry about.

Don't you think a lot of the danger in the commercial flying in Alaska is the pressure to make a flight when the weather is not all that good. Because they have to make a living when they can during the summer months. So flights are made when maybe they shouldn't.

skybobb wrote:Don't you think a lot of the danger in the commercial flying in Alaska is the pressure to make a flight when the weather is not all that good. Because they have to make a living when they can during the summer months. So flights are made when maybe they shouldn't.

That, maybe, plus the fact that Alaska is a place where small, commercially operated planes really are what people rely on to get around. If you offer scenic flights, haul skydivers, or whatever, the demand is naturally going to go down in periods of crappy weather, so it should make sense that the weather-related accident rate is going to be lower too. It many parts of this state, it's not about elective vacation activities. It's tied into people's daily needs, which don't wax and wane with the amount of sunshine or cloud cover.

I'm not saying that this is a factor in the accident rate, but I'll also point out that lots of things here get backed up during long periods of poor weather- from deliveries of goods and passengers to the villages, to wildlife survey crews trying to get over the Brooks Range to the next survey location, to climbers trying to get to base camp up on Denali. When the weather does clear, it's Go-Go-Go. Again, quite different from pleasure flights for hire in the lower 48. I doubt that the backlog piles up like it does here.

My .02

-Denalipilot

skybobb wrote:Don't you think a lot of the danger in the commercial flying in Alaska is the pressure to make a flight when the weather is not all that good. Because they have to make a living when they can during the summer months. So flights are made when maybe they shouldn't.

You know, AK seems to be some sort of exclusive club, in terms of pilot opportunities. Be it driving a silly 206 or 207 or even something smaller (or trying to apply for such) has become the equivalent of throwing poop at a wall, hoping some would stick. It seems as if the "you need AK time" to fly in AK gang is ruling the pot, even though there is no factual relation or prove that someone with no AK time will kill him/herself any sooner than someone with a boatload of it. However, there are many pilots with no prior AK time scaring themselves before being "broken in". The issue is (or seems to be) to keep half ass SJS people out of airplanes and not waste training and money on a new recruit who may jump at the next glimpse of heavier iron. Its just so much easier to look at a resume and say: "Oh, guy/gal doesn't have 1000 hours AK, put it in the trash!". With people who have spent a quarter of their life up there, flying small to big iron in my own surroundings, this opinion is shared more than not. AK has always been a hot zone for on the edge flying, but from what I can tell, flying up a fogged out mountain valley and hitting granite is still no different than it was 50 years ago. The stones are still the same, the topo is still the same, and apparently the attitudes are still the same. I mean, with supermarkets full of meat and stuffing, does one really need to kill the moose/ bear or squirrel by stalling, spinning & dropping on top it out of a low level look and see skid? Is there really a good reason to knowingly overload an airplane all the time? I know, business and all... and profit and promises... but still... I am sure there is the "Go Go Go" backup problem and the weather has always been a big factor but it has been forever. I catch flak on that every time, but there is not a single good reason to lose your job for not going if it's beyond your comfort level. Of course, comfort levels rise the longer we do what we do, but there are tools against complacency.

The same goes for the Ag flying community in my book. Every once in a while, some gray beard will blurb out of nowhere, reporting on how hard it has become to find pilots who will stick something out for more than half a season. Yet, the only way to find someone to hire you is to show up some day (at their spray site) and talk to the owner. If he needs someone to swing a broom, you may have a chance to work in the ground crew for a few years, before you get promoted or get a chance. Again, generalization and assumption rules the market, if you got less than 3000 hours starting out you are a dangerous time builder and if you got more, then something else is apparently wrong. Of course, it's dangerous work and all, but to me it looks more like a self induced gunshot wound to the foot. It's almost a process of self elimination. Even when fresh meat goes out and spends 50K on the training courses made available - chances for luck are NIL.

skybobb wrote:Don't you think a lot of the danger in the commercial flying in Alaska is the pressure to make a flight when the weather is not all that good. Because they have to make a living when they can during the summer months. So flights are made when maybe they shouldn't.

Having owned and operated a Part 135 Air Taxi for nearly 30 years in Alaska. Our procedure was go take a look, use good judgment and return if wx did not allow. ( No web cams back in those days) Pilots were payed to take a look and return and paid again to complete the flight when conditions improved. No pressure on the pilot to push wx but plenty on the operator. Key was to not let the customer pressure u into going when conditions were marginal.

Have had customers sitting in office for 3 days waiting on wx then walked across the road to a competitor and crashed and died trying to get to their destination. Key is don't give into pressure of customers. It's hard and cost $$$ sometimes but have to stick to company procedures and Go No Go decisions. Pilots always had the decision to turn around with no questions asked.........

WOW... Gump u want to answer this one......I think my tongue is bleeding after biting it

You know, AK seems to be some sort of exclusive club, in terms of pilot opportunities. Be it driving a silly 206 or 207 or even something smaller (or trying to apply for such) has become the equivalent of throwing poop at a wall, hoping some would stick. It seems as if the "you need AK time" to fly in AK gang is ruling the pot, even though there is no factual relation or prove that someone with no AK time will kill him/herself any sooner than someone with a boatload of it. However, there are many pilots with no prior AK time scaring themselves before being "broken in". The issue is (or seems to be) to keep half ass SJS people out of airplanes and not waste training and money on a new recruit who may jump at the next glimpse of heavier iron. Its just so much easier to look at a resume and say: "Oh, guy/gal doesn't have 1000 hours AK, put it in the trash!". With people who have spent a quarter of their life up there, flying small to big iron in my own surroundings, this opinion is shared more than not. AK has always been a hot zone for on the edge flying, but from what I can tell, flying up a fogged out mountain valley and hitting granite is still no different than it was 50 years ago. The stones are still the same, the topo is still the same, and apparently the attitudes are still the same. I mean, with supermarkets full of meat and stuffing, does one really need to kill the moose/ bear or squirrel by stalling, spinning & dropping on top it out of a low level look and see skid? Is there really a good reason to knowingly overload an airplane all the time? I know, business and all... and profit and promises... but still... I am sure there is the "Go Go Go" backup problem and the weather has always been a big factor but it has been forever. I catch flak on that every time, but there is not a single good reason to lose your job for not going if it's beyond your comfort level. Of course, comfort levels rise the longer we do what we do, but there are tools against complacency.

The same goes for the Ag flying community in my book. Every once in a while, some gray beard will blurb out of nowhere, reporting on how hard it has become to find pilots who will stick something out for more than half a season. Yet, the only way to find someone to hire you is to show up some day (at their spray site) and talk to the owner. If he needs someone to swing a broom, you may have a chance to work in the ground crew for a few years, before you get promoted or get a chance. Again, generalization and assumption rules the market, if you got less than 3000 hours starting out you are a dangerous time builder and if you got more, then something else is apparently wrong. Of course, it's dangerous work and all, but to me it looks more like a self induced gunshot wound to the foot. It's almost a process of self elimination. Even when fresh meat goes out and spends 50K on the training courses made available - chances for luck are NIL.[/quote]

Helmet is on, goggles are set...