I like the idea of a low maintenance reminder.

Many pilots learn the rules of the back country, fly it a few times having pretty good luck and good time, then start becoming complacent.

How many of us study the charts as much now going into the bc, as they did there first few trips.

The back country pilot that I had the honor to learn from use to take me up various canyons or mountain passes with the hood on.
When removed I had better know where we were.

I find myself picking those charts up again. So count me in, to what ever help you need.

Fellas,

These are all good ideas and points well taken. However, one thing bothers me a bit about a memorial that verges on "preaching" to the audience...

I agree, Mike, that you and I would probably want a memorial left to others that might help them avoid a tragic mistake. However, do we know Berk well enough to be sure that this is what he would have wanted? Have his family and close friends been asked? The last thing I would want to do is erect a memorial, however well-intended, that might cast a shadow on Berk's memory for his friends and family. The no-holds-barred venues for passing on the lessons of fallen comrades are campfires, classrooms, the flightdeck, this forum, etc. A public reminder may-or-may-not be appropriate. If we memorialize Berk with a makeshift FSS, or a stone with 10 BCP commandments, or whatever; I would like to know that his family and close friends approve. Who knows, they may not want us to do anything at all. I just think we should respect their wishes. It also may be a bit of time before it is appropriate to approach them.

Beyond that - let's vote!

Matt

I will gladly contribute to help fund whatever we agree. Berk was cool. I always looked forward to his posts. They had a sense of wisdom and calm. I'm sure they were just a glimpse at some of the qualities he possessed.

I flew up that same canyon last year on my way to Big Creek. I was able to continue climbing up the canyon and regain my bearings when I got up and over the ridge. It was a little bumpy, which made it more difficult to reference the chart. I should have taken more time to plan my return trip to Big Creek on the ground, prior to departure from JC. I did get to tour the area, but it wasn't planned that way or the intended route. Live and learn, learn and live.

Matt,

I agree with you fully. Actually, that's why I suggested a place for pilots to check out, to write a note, whatever.

For many years, I worked on a conservation unit where we had 11 public use cabins. We put "Govmint" notebooks in every one of them. Nobody HAD to write anything in them at all, and a notebook would last a full season or more in most cases. I was always amazed at HOW MANY people chose to write something in those books.

My point wasn't to make any kind of statement about Berk's accident in this thing at all. Simply provide a simple kiosk, with a book and pencils, where pilots can voluntarily write that they are departing Johnson Creek for Big Creek this date and time, and expect to come back tonight.

If people choose NOT to write anything in there, so be it. People fly without flight plans all the time, and that's their right. It sure does complicate the search though, if they don't arrive at their destination.

Such a kiosk, I think, would be more heavily used than you think.

And, if there were ever another situation such as Berk's occur, and the people involved had used this book to make notes, and their lives were saved, wouldn't THAT be the best possible memorial to Berk??

Seems to me, anyway.

Plaques are everywhere, and meaningless to most folks.

MTV

This is a link to a company in Olympia which has a proprietary process to put maps, photos, etc. on porcelain. I've seen this product on kiosks, its tough and resistent to the elements. Might be an option.

http://www.winsorfireform.com/products.cfm

Jr.CubBuilder wrote:and if I got back and there were no cold beer waiting I would know never to rely on you again for beer, and probably leave you a scathing note in there while I went to town for beer myself.

Now you know that would never happen

Isn't there already a guest book at JC? You're suggesting something more like a combination guestbook/noteboard?

When I did a lot of climbing, there was always a can, bottle or ammo box at the summit with a log of who'd been there before you and there's a lot more mountains than airstrips so, I don't think it would be a big deal to something like MTV has proposed. As far as the family and friends going along, I do think their blessing on whatever is done would seem appropriate and as was mentioned, later might be better than sooner to get approval. Whatever is decided, I will contribute.

Just my .02...

Mark

Hey Bros, I was thinking, I know that’s scary. We will whip this memorial thing for a long time.

Berk appeared to be a guy of normal income. If some one posted Suzies mailing address we could send her a note or card and a few dollars to help.

I don’t know much about Berk. I know nothing about children or finances, but I know from personal experience that in these situations, cards, notes, and checks mean a lot. Regards…Rob

First and most importantly I would like to express my condolences to Berk's family, friends, and all who knew him. His posts suggest he was always working on being a better pilot, and that he was good natured, kind, and gracious. I am certain, just form his posts, some people will miss him dearly.

Insofar as a memorial is concerned perhaps we could improve or add to the guest book at JC. Something along the lines, as has already been suggested, of Forrest Service or Park Service interpretive trailhead kiosk. Combine a place to sign in with a little history of aviation in the area, some kind of tips for mountain flying and a map.

I will quit rambling. Here is a photo of what I am talking about:



Of course the wishes of the family should be respected.

Chet

zane wrote:I like where you guys are taking this... I also think that trying to institute a checkout/checkin system at JC is a nice idea, but it's a Pandoras Box of headaches and would most likely be ignored by most.

Along these lines, does JC have cell service?

tom

There is no cell phone service in most of the Idaho back country including JC. Once and a while on a high south facing ridge you can get an iffy signal.

There is a land line phone at JC airport.

Go on JR! I'm with you.

John, I agree if we start putting up memorials there would unfortunately be far to many. Perhaps a card to Susan It may be best to check with John who was very close to both of them.
Bruce

Chet has pictured what I was suggesting.

I am NOT necessarily suggesting a "Guest Book", but rather a pilot's log.

Maybe if there is already a "guest book" there, it's taken care of and the opportunity exists.

As to memorials, there's one next to the shelter at Smiley Creek. I looked at it, and it was totally meaningless to me. A guy's name, no description of how he died, or?? It's just a rock next to a camping area. I'm sure there was a story there, but....

Whatever works.

But, here's something to think about, for all you young whipersnappers, and some of us more "mature" types:

Git yer shit together. Tell someone what would please you to have left behind as a reminder.

I know what I'd want. I've informed my family. It's just an extension of a will, and of course a lot of us don't have those either....

Preaching complete.

MTV

If you want to create a memorial, Place a large magic marker board in his name. I'm sure the state of Idaho will allow you to place it on a wall of one of the structures at Johnson Creek in a strategic place. A pilot merely writes where he is going and when he will return. Obviously if a group of guys are going the same route and same location together, it is not nessasary. One plane it is a must. Especially when there is a fly in with members knowing each other. Mr Snow lived according to reports for 13 hours. There might have been a chance!


IdahoSupercub

Okay, apparently there is a "guest book" at Johnson Creek. Do any pilots ever use it for this purpose?? Or is it just a "I been here" thing?

Maybe all it would take would be to install a reminder that a quick note in the "guest book" as to your destination and estimated arrival, could save a lot of search effort, and maybe your life.

This could be done in memory of Berk, with wording careful not to cast aspersions, just as a reminder.

Or, install something else permanent, specifically for pilot "trip following" purposes. I'd bet that Idaho Aeronautics and everyone else would support it from an official standpoint.

I think this would be a great addition to lots of little remote airstrips.

MTV

I actually am warming to this idea ^^^ Dry erase board with permanent rows where you could scratch in your "flight plan" and some notes/messages. Erase it from the board when you're back safe and accounted for. Don't get too much into arrival/return times, just where you planned on going that day and if you're coming back that night or in the morning.

The guest book is nice, but you're right, it's just a "I was here" kinda thing and how many take a good look at it and flip through the pages while corroborating it with dates and planes present on the field? A large dry erase board is hard to miss, especially if it seems important and in the foreground.

Only at a busy place like JC or Big Creek or Smiley Creek would it be successful, because it depends on other campers to back it up.

As with all things flying, best practices and conventions are established by the pilots themselves and indoctrinated into tradition when they work well.

Zane,

Actually, this would not just rely on other campers and pilots. The other aspect is if a family member called the sheriff's office, or ?? about an overdue pilot, they could easily ask an air taxi pilot or local resident to go check the board.

If the name is on the board, you know you have a search, and you know WHAT DIRECTION TO GO to look.

In the case of Sparky and JC, that was a big problem--we didn't know which way to go to look for them.

Frankly, I'm surprised they found Berk so fast. In JC and Sparky's accident the airplane burned and was virtually invisible.

Just that little bit of information could get some help to an injured person or an uninjured one much faster.

And, that could save a life or two, particularly at certain times of year.

One of the things I hope to do in flight instructing is the hope that maybe some little thing I can pass on to someone might someday turn on a light in their head, and help them avoid an accident or disaster.

I've had the opportunity to fly with some really skilled aviators, some real old timers, who passed on things to me that I know have kept me alive when I got myself in a corner I shouldn't have been in.

If I can do that, I will have succeeded in life, methinks.

And, just a little bit of help to searchers in finding someone might just save that life.

MTV

Johnson Creek Fly-in... a reminder

Look at this carnage:
http://www.aigaviation.com/aviationsalv ... ano=N6233E

If it make you feel as sickened as it did me, then lets do something as many of us discussed last June...!!!

I quote a few of us below:

A 64pilot wrote:
Is there any kind of a memorial type of thing we can pitch in and contribute to, and
I'm in, let me know a suggested donation and where to send the check. I've never met any of you guy's, but I like the idea of trying to find a way to educate others so that they may not follow that pass. Kinda the idea of if you only save one, it was worth it.
I never met Berk except on this forum, but I think he would be pleased.

qmdv wrote:
Well I think he should kept as a member of the org so that future folks can read his posts.

RobBurson wrote;
Hi friends, I’m just thinking out loud. Maybe one of those nice picnic tables at JC with a memorial plaque. Regards…Rob

Zona wrote:
I'm in on the plaque Bob. You know the first time I went to JC, they had just pulled someone out of the same area, going to the same place. People told me about it over dinner. How can we hand down this info to new pilots flying in that area going the same direction?

I wrote:
I suggest that perhaps a modest sum of $5 to $10 from those who wish, will go a long ways. There is a shop here in Gresham, OR that can make a nice plague quite reasonable. Perhaps another poster might have a source for a table (or other suitable gift) to Johnson Creek in Berk's memory?

As I was reviewing this thread from last summer, one thought came to mind. I seem to remember seeing something in one of the Rudder Flutter's reminding those who would like to put up some sort of a memorial that it needs to be approved and coordinated with the guys over at the Div. of Aeronautics. Anyway, just thought I'd throw that into the mix since I didn't see it mentioned before.