Well here goes one of mine.
It all started innocently enough. I was scheduled to fly a bunch of boxes of material to a project in Susanville, Ca. The old 206 saying is " if it'll fit through the doors you can fly with it" . Well this stuff was pretty heavy and there was a lot of it. To the point I had to remove all the aft seats to get it all in. In addition I had one passenger (to help unload on the other end) We departed with about 1/2 fuel on board for the 1 hour flight. The take off run was really nothing special although I did let her stay in ground effect to build a bit o' speed before climbing out. Thank goodness for those 315 turbocharged ponies. Had to dial in a little more nose down trim than normal so I knew we were pretty far aft on CG. Upon arrival at Susanville, I got the plane configured for landing and noticed that I still had the yoke pushing even with full nose down trim. Adding another 10 kts to my approach speed, we made a successful landing. Taxied to our usual spot and hopped out to push her back and tie her down. Shortly after my feet hit the ground and much to my surprise, she sat right down on her tail. It took me on the tail cone and my passenger hanging on the prop to get her pushed back. In retrospect I really should have done a W/B and figured out how heavy and outta' CG the load actually was. I also should have taken into account the fuel burn and how that would effect the CG at arrival. Just by luck and with a lot of time in the 206 did I feel the problem and add the margin needed for successful landing. I can't even imagine the stall, that most certainly would have been unrecoverable, had I been too slow during that approach. It was my wake up call to W/B calcs. especially now that I fly lesser powered birds.

So come on now, I know there are other stories out there. Let's hear 'em...

So what exactly was the material? Hash bricks impregnated with depleted uranium???

zane wrote:So what exactly was the material? Hash bricks impregnated with depleted uranium???

See, that's why I couldn't continue to fly the 206. I was always being stereotyped as a drugrunner. Besides who said anything about ah,um,er, uranium???

Actually, it was butyl tape for installing bullet resistant glass in the control rooms of the prison expansion at Susanville prison. The install crew had run out and it was going to take three days for LTL to get it there.

On another note, we were told to always fly with all six seats installed in the 206, when visiting Mexico. Seems landing at a port of entry in the U.S., after a trip south of the border, without all the seats would raise some eyebrows with the feds. Evidently they are aware of the 206's "load carrying capabilities"...

Huummm!
Sounds like it is a good thing that you have an airplane with the little wheel in the back.

Not necessarily an out of CG story nor have I had the pleasure of carrying the glow in the dark stuff, but one of our more unusual loads.
A couple of years ago, Chelle & I knew a farmer in Moses Lake, WA that raised sheep. We really like Spring Lamb and hate to pay the price. We also have several friends that do as well. We set up a meeting with Mr. Farmer to meet him at a small AG strip and buy 6 or 7 lambs (Cut & wrapped, thank you) and ferry them home. It's an 8 hour drive minimum round trip and only 2-2:30 in the Yellow Peril. Tough choice.
While approaching our deserted AG strip, the only other traffic was a State Trooper working traffic in conjuction with a patrol on the ground. After we had landed and were loading the small, unmarked white paper wrapped packages from the farmer's truck into our plane, the trooper came in and landed and walked over to see what was going on while waiting for his partner. The farmer had sent his 18 year old boy with appropriately long, disheleved hair and old Ford truck and we were in a hurry loading up the frozen meat to avoid thaw on the hot day. The Trooper asked what we were loading, we replied that it was frozen lamb the only marking was the butcher's "Not for resale" stamp. The Trooper's partner showed up and off they went to lunch. I was amazed he didn't want us to prove it! Middle of nowhere, no seats, 1-2lb white wrapped packages not to mention we were loading almost 350 lbs in the plane. (We made two back-to-back trips that day for a total of 720# of meat) and nary a question from the Authorities. I guess that is one of the benefits of short hair!
As a side note, that much frozen meat in the cockpit even on the hottest day will inspire you to turn on the heater!
And that is my smuggling story. If I were a bad guy, that one trip would have retired me.

I went to flight school in Moses Lake, some of my classmates might have know those sheep

haha. that is a great story kurt!

I encourage anyone on here to post their "smuggling" stories. If you're worried about i being traced back to you, just post it in the support forum anonymously. i'll move it.

zane wrote:haha. that is a great story kurt!

I encourage anyone on here to post their "smuggling" stories. If you're worried about i being traced back to you, just post it in the support forum anonymously. i'll move it.

I'll check with my "friend" and if the statute of limitations has run out, he might share...

Mark

My 1st post here,

I was in Alaska two summers ago and on one of my trips landed at a native village ("Ekwok", not sure about spelling?) to drop off my friend and all his gear (he is a king salmon fishing guide for a few weeks each year). As we were waiting for the fourwheeler to show up for his gear a Cessna 207 comes in and lands (pretty fast I might add). I am standing on the far side of my plane when I hear this awful noise of metal and gravel and look around to see the 207 draging the tail as it pulls the power back and makes the turn off the runway (Gravel runway and taxi way). It taxis past my airplane and turns heading the same direction as I am (all the while just draging the tail on the ground). The air taxi guy gets out drops off a native and a small amount of gear. I say to him "a little aft on the CG" and he says "nah", gets back in, fires it up, adds enough power to pick the tail up, taxis out to the runway, puts the juice to it and off he goes. Just a day in the life of a part 135 operation in Alaska I guess.

Greg

Hmmm, dragging old posts for lack of anything better to do tonight.
I had an experience that does not neccessarily speak well of the capabilities of thought process but "Oh well".
I had a couple of guys ask me to fly them out to Skwentna for them to fix a generator and some other chores. I was going out to my cabin any way and looked at it as a way to share some expenses.
One guy was 275#, the other was 240# and I'm just under 200#. There were some tools (20-25#) and a battery (65#). I told them I would not take them from my field but would pick them up at Wasilla which is 4000' and paved. Skwentna is 5000' of gravel (It's a Herc strip) The weather was 25 above and calm (important detail) as I fueled the plane at Wasilla gauging time enroute (30 gallons), the guys showed up. One guy brought his girl friend (120# fortunately) and asked if she could come. I know, you guys are saying dump one of the fat asses and take the girl. Well I sat down and worked out the weight and balance. I was way (!) over gross but within CG so I put in just enough fuel to include my 30 min. reserve, back taxied to the very end of the field and began the ground run. I had made the big boy ride up front with the battery between his feet. The plane came off the field in 800' and I kept it in GE to feel it, OK, now I began a shallow climb and stayed in a tight pattern, still OK. I departed the pattern and headed out, still calm and OK. Cruised at 135 and doing good. Dropped them off at Skwentna and continued off to my cabin. On the return, we were minus the tools and battery and what fuel I had burned. The gravel had a frozen surface of about an inch or two that we were breaking through. Despite that, I was off in 900' and again, still air on the way home.
Not the best piece of judgement on my part but effective nontheless. Interesting on the W&B despite being a little over gross.

A Cessna 206, and certainly a Cessna 207 can sit down on its tail WITH A LEGAL, within CG load. That's why a lot of them in Alaska have had a tailspring added under the tail cone. These are very long fuselage airplanes. I've worked a W/B carefully, and still had one sit on its tail after burning some gas. Still W/I CG, though.

Let's not start "stories" about how heroic we all are at flying in excess of legal gross weight, PLEASE, folks. Lots of folks have died in little airplanes in part because they ignored W/B. We don't need any more of those.

Yellowmaule--unsecured car battery, between the pax feet?? Uh, what happens to that in an accident scenario? Let's see, potential sparks, corrosive materials, explosive gases, big chunk of stuff floating around the cockpit......and I don't suppose there was ANY chance that thing could tangle with the pedals on that side?

Good grief .

MTV

Negative MTV, battery was tied down and posts capped everything gets tied down even the light stuff.
No heroics as stated, just poor judgement. Not to be repeated, hopefully by anyone. I'm sure everyone has done somthing that they would not repeat in hind sight. Fortunately there was no NTSB that would have pointed to the glaringly obvious fault, my judgement.
Merly an observation of physical ability of weight vs. CG.

I like to hear stories like this, especially since greener pilots like myself can't always imagine some of the more colorful hauling scenarios. I don't think its braggadocio to tell a story like this if the tone is one of "I lived to tell about it" rather than "I proved that the rules are retarded."

Can someone explain the reasoning behind the reg that allows commercial pilots in AK to take off legally while X percentage over gross? Cold air? Necessity?

Jeremy told me of an M7 that was flying around the world with ferry tanks in the back seat and right seat, as well. It was over 1000# over gross at takeoff. Rate of climb was like 100 feet/min. Sure, it did it. But the slightest downdraft or evasive maneuver to avoid a collision would probably end the flight abruptly. Yellowmaule is providing some wisdom that others should heed and so is MTV... your airplane will perform quite differently when over loaded or out of cg and many have made that their last flight discovering just that.

I was amazed yesterday to hear the new Airbus A-380 has an 800 passenger capacity. Are those real people or liliputians. It was stated that it was for the "Asian market". Does that mean the average weight per person is less than the "North American" market?

zane wrote:
Can someone explain the reasoning behind the reg that allows commercial pilots in AK to take off legally while X percentage over gross? Cold air? Necessity?

Political expediency. I'm sure MTV has more input but it's my understanding it happened "just because" with the pushing of our delegation.

I'll second the part about 206's sitting on their tail within the W&B envelope. In Page (AZ) our government 206 had to be loaded front passengers first then heavy stuff through the loading door, when being flown with light fuel, and I can guarantee that operation was legal Of course the pilot was also the A&P and he didn't want to scratch his shiny tail cone so we were also careful to unload in reverse order.

Zane, the rules are there for a reason, you might be able to cheat them once in awhile but for the most part, they're based on fact and for a reason. Not neccessarily liability but certainly with a margin of error in mind. These planes are for the most part very capable. Far more than some of us are anyway.

Zane,

There is NO FAR that permits commercial operators in Alaska to operate in excess of legal gross weight. That is a common misreading of the FARs. What the FAR says is:

§ 91.323 Increased maximum certificated weights for certain airplanes operated in Alaska.
(a) Notwithstanding any other provision of the Federal Aviation Regulations, the Administrator will approve, as provided in this section, an increase in the maximum certificated weight of an airplane type certificated under Aeronautics Bulletin No. 7–A of the U.S. Department of Commerce dated January 1, 1931, as amended, or under the normal category of part 4a of the former Civil Air Regulations (14 CFR part 4a, 1964 ed.) if that airplane is operated in the State of Alaska by—

(1) A certificate holder conducting operations under part 121 or part 135 of this chapter; or

(2) The U.S. Department of Interior in conducting its game and fish law enforcement activities or its management, fire detection, and fire suppression activities concerning public lands.

(b) The maximum certificated weight approved under this section may not exceed—

(1) 12,500 pounds;

(2) 115 percent of the maximum weight listed in the FAA aircraft specifications;

(3) The weight at which the airplane meets the positive maneuvering load factor requirement for the normal category specified in §23.337 of this chapter; or

(4) The weight at which the airplane meets the climb performance requirements under which it was type certificated.

(c) In determining the maximum certificated weight, the Administrator considers the structural soundness of the airplane and the terrain to be traversed.

(d) The maximum certificated weight determined under this section is added to the airplane's operation limitations and is identified as the maximum weight authorized for operations within the State of Alaska.

I don't know of any operator working in Alaska these days that has one of these authorizations. In fact, the Department of Interior, which I worked for for 34 years, no longer plays this game either, and never needed to in any case, because DOI can operate as "public aircraft", which precludes application of the FAR.

Simply put, the FAA does NOT issue these things. For one thing, to follow the rule, the FAA would have to basically do a complete flight test to satisfy the requirements of 3 and 4 above.

MTV

Yellowmaule,

How do you tie down a car battery between a passenger's feet?? Where would be the cargo tiedowns up there?

MTV

in 84 or 85 when Dick Rutan and Jenna Yeager made their first attempt to set the world distance record for a single fueled flight by doing figure eights over California for 9 days, they ran into serious problems... Jenna was flying the aircraft and Dick was working the radios when they lost an engine and needed to make an emergency landing... The major problem they had was no way to dump fuel and as a result Dick was more than a little freaked out since he was the one stuffed into the crawl space in the forward fuselage working the radios. To make a long story short when I ly got them on the ground both wings dragged the runway from the weight of the fuel. needless to say when they made their second attempt at the distance record over california and prior to the around the world record, a dump valve was installed on the aircraft.

The photos and drawing of Voyager make it look huge, when in fact it is a very small aircraft which required Dick and Jenna to slide past each other when changing positions. The was a very very small aircraft with huge wing span that was nothing more than a flying fuel cell with a cockpit control area smaller than the size of a single seat glider...

Kurt, reading your post- it sounds like you have your own strip, as in at your home. ??
I agree that maybe it wasn't the best idea in the world to fly over-gross, but you bent that rule in a careful manner. Poor judgement? Yes and no--checking the W&B to be sure you were within CG limits (even though over weight) showed good judgement IMHO. CG is critical, being overweight isn't always. If you were in the Idaho backcountry in August, now that'd be a different thing altogether.
But next time leave the fatties on the ramp.

Eric