Has anyone on here had any luck getting an accurate market valuation for purchasing airplanes? There doesn't seem to be an aviation equivalent to Kelly Blue Book or Edmunds without paying an arm and a leg for the same tool one would use to appraise a Gulfstream.

I saw that AOPA has a valuation tool. Any ideas as to how accurate it is?

I just went through this exercise, concluding with a purchase in January.

Before settling on a Maule I was considering Maule, 182 or SR20.

I found the AOPA vref tool to be very useful for SR20 and 182 as they had a lot of data from which to do good statistics. For the Maule it was far less accurate, probably due to the smaller number of data points.

AOPA

AOPA is a very good starting point. Bear in mind that the price is market average which takes into account from stellar to junk pile and mooshes them into one tidy number. Add more if the airplane is in good condition and has some nice extras.

As RW2 pointed out it can also depend on the kind of data they're getting. If there are a lot of junkers being sold, it might make a good condition airplane seem over priced. It will likely take a bit of footwork on your own to ferret out if the price is reasonable.

Good hunting.

As others said, the AOPA tool is a great starting point. But when your getting serious it would be worth it to have an appraisal done and if your financing most banks require one prior to loan approval. I just bought my plane in November and used the AOPA tool to see if they were even in the ball park and then had an appraisal done prior to making an offer.

rw2 touched on the point I'm having trouble with. I'm looking seriously at Maule M-7-235s but the market is so minute as compared to say a Piper or a Cessna that I worry it may be very inaccurate.

What's blown me away as both a car-nut and real estate investor is watching how immune the prices of airplanes seem to be to the normal market forces. Right after the market dumped you could pick up a one year old BMW M5 for $27K. Four-plexes up here in Anchorage are skyrocketing in value with low interest rates and high rents, but 'ol Ned is gonna let the fabric fall of his Cub before he drops the price five hundred bucks.

I talked to a guy trying to sell his Maule at Birchwood the other day. He had it listed for what was my best guess $20K over fair market. You would have thought I'd slapped his daughter on the ass when I asked how he came to the valuation that he did. Big suprise, it's still for sale.

I understand fully that aircraft just hold their value better but I get the impression that either one of two things are happening when it comes to these dudes and their delusions of grandeur when it comes to pricing. Either A. They are in debt up their ears and can't sell for a lower value, or B. They don't really want to sell it but the wife does. Then you've got the guy who never flies his airplane and really should sell but won't. I guess he's worried that someday he's gonna tell that chick at the hotel bar he owns an airplane and she'll say "prove it".

There are a lot of would be sellers that are still living in 2001 as far as knowing the value of their aircraft. A year ago I was prepared to pay 93% of asking price on a Maule MX-7 160. The owner actually got offended and refused to even negotiate further. The plane is still for sale at a price less than I offered.

There are also a large number of 'lookers/tire kickers' that seem to think that planes listed for sale should be devalued as much as homes, boats, etc. As has been stated, the AOPA and other valuations are a starting point. Rarely are two planes similarly equipped or in the same condition. I've seen 30-40K planes with panels worth nearly as much as the plane and had guys looking to buy complain that the seller is asking too much for a plane 'they' think should be priced lower. This well equipped plane is priced accordingly and actually a better buy then the old steam gauged plane but the buyer doesn't see it that way.
Also a lot of guys out there trying to make a quick buck by hoping to find that great deal and then turn around and ask top dollar. The proverbial shyster used car salesman types.
I personally think if one looks at Barnstormers and TAP they can get a fair assessment of what a plane is worth. Granted, there will be the one asking too much and the few that are a 'deal' but overall one can get a pretty good feel for the current market.
Oh, the deals rarely last more than a day or two.

http://Www.globalplanesearch.com compiles all of the other ads from barnstormers, etc. good way to keep from running in circles looking at the same plane on multiple sites and not realizing it (am I the only one? ).

Aircraft Bluebook Price Digest is updated every 90 days based on actual sales completed, not asking prices.
It is used by dealers, lending banks and Insurance companies. It is a professional tool. A bit expensive for a one time buyer or seller but invaluable to a trader.

maules.com, this question is somewhat related to this topic but I wonder how many planes are sold where the actual selling price and the price stated on the sent in bill of sale are the same. Don't want to start a war or anything but I know this happens more often then not. Anything to avoid the taxman, especially when it comes to private sales.

There is not much of a domestic market for anything except what is cheap and those deals rarely hit Barnstormers or TAP. If they're selling something like a reasonably priced post - 67 turbo 206 there is an export market. Super Cubs are doing OK as long as its not the $150K mid-life crisis unit.

Alaska sellers like to try to capitalize on the fact that its already here, which is really worth an extra $5K if you do the math. Likewise, it will cost a buyer from the U.S. a lot of money to get one out of AK plus we have a reputation for rough airplanes.

Maules really aren't too popular here so don't let anyone try to hold you up over it. Politely offer .70 on the $ and move on. They are all going to be worth less next year.

WWhunter, The Bluebook evaluation structure is taken from reports of actual sales which the dealers send in every 90 days. There is no need or advantage to falsify these numbers.
The majority of of Bill of Sale prices say $10.00 & o.v.c. as you suggest but this tells us nothing.
A good sale price is the one that both buyer and seller agree to and are both grinning. No one is forced to buy, though a few are under pressure to sell. Both buyer and seller have free choice to consummate the deal.
I could write a book about all the amusing subterfuges and shenanigans buyers and sellers get up to when trying to buy/sell a plane.

Jeremy,

I've got your for sale page as my home page. What time of year do you normally start seeing new inventory?

The unstated piece to the equation, though, is that whether it's over-priced or a "deal", there aren't any guarantees. You could pay premium for what appears to be a premium airplane, or get a "deal", and the engine fails in 15 hours, which effectively raises the price of the airplane the amount of the new engine. Been there, done that. Now you have an airplane that no "blue book" or Vref or anything else would say is worth what you have into it. But that's the breaks. It just means that you have to be prepared to spend a whole lot more than the purchase price of the airplane, no matter what.

Cary

Tick, Jeremy is an excellent resource. He was immensely helpful in my search and I think I haven't properly thanked him. So, Jeremy, Thanks!

I think the best advice I would give is just to cast a wide net and be patient. As it happens, I only ended up looking for a couple months before the right deal came along, but I was prepared to wait until spring (I started looking in November) or longer if necessary.

I found the Maule community to be very giving with its time and information. I came to the process with the mindset that the process itself was educational and had value. I don't know your background, but unless you are super educated already I think adopting this posture will probably benefit you as well.

Feel free to PM me if you want another person to bounce ideas off or validate information. I'm no expert, but I did just buy the exact model you're seeking, so maybe I can be of some assistance.

Thanks for the honest answer maules! I seriously was curious and figured that would be the answer since I sure don't see any benefit of a legitimate dealer 'fudging' the numbers.
For you guys looking at planes, one word of advice I would give....if it looks like a good deal to you and you are interested at all, please put a deposit on said plane. The good deals never last long, I have a few guys that correspond with me looking for planes that have lost that proverbial 'good deal' because they have second thoughts or are hoping for a better deal. This is especially true when it comes to LSA or higher desired planes.

What has been posted is what I found to be true having just gone through this process as well. It was definitely a learning experience! AOPA was a good place to start. Then, with the help of a friend who is what I consider to be an expert on the type aircraft I purchased, I was able to get a pretty good feel for what range a fair price would be. Then, after looking at several aircraft, it was apparent that the one I bought was the best on the market. I know I paid a premium for it, but in comparison to the rest on the market and their condition, I was ok with that. There were cheaper ones out there, but I think they would have cost me more in the long run.

Good luck!

WWhunter wrote:.......I've seen 30-40K planes with panels worth nearly as much as the plane and had guys looking to buy complain that the seller is asking too much for a plane 'they' think should be priced lower. This well equipped plane is priced accordingly and actually a better buy then the old steam gauged plane but the buyer doesn't see it that way..........

"Better buy" is a relative term & depends o the buyer & the mission. The aircraft equipment list should match the airplane. A $15K 1969 C150 with a $15K panel is still just a C150. A $40K 1950 Bonanza with a $40K panel is still just an old Bonanza. I know a guy who owns an old C150 which he took home to paint about 20 years ago, and just now finally got it back to the airport and hung the wings back on it. He just ponied up for a KX155 with glideslope (plus installation)-- that's a nice radio, but overkill for a guy who's just gonna fly VFR around the neighborhood. He'd have been money ahead to buy a simple com radio and a handheld GPS, and save the rest of the money for gas & hangar rent. IMHO.

Gents, thankyou for kind words.
Tick, some of the sales never make it to the website. There is a roughly predictable graph of sales which is related to many things, including tax time, stockmarket movement, thanksgiving/christmas time, school out etc.
The graph of incoming aircraft for sale is not as clear. I might get nothing for a couple weeks, I might get examples I dont want to sell, I might get a bunch at once. I often help sellers to make their own sale to save commissions or to demonstrate all that goes into a successful and happy result.
A prepared buyer can move more quickly when the time comes. Here are the items you need.
Pre qualify and know you have available the realistic max you are prepared to spend. You can always spend less.
Pre qualify yourself regarding being able to get insured if borrowing against the plane.
Know your bottom line.
Know the routes through your state's tax structure as some states have expensive sales/use tax.