The 2700's definitely lock up and down. Not sure of the 2705's

I now have a service manual for 2705s, they do lock both up and down.

The hand pump in the pics is currently installed on a 185 via a Fluidyne STC. Can be used for floats or skis. We are getting the Edo STC for the float installation on 180 and then doing a field approval to use the Fluidyne hydraulic setup. FSDO is being cooperative.

* If pumping hydraulics by hand, get landing gear down and locked before getting into the pattern!

* Go arounds, may require leaving gear down.

* Climb outs will have less performance, because extra time needed with low volume pump.

* Consider hand pumping landing gear awkward (and possibly dangerous). Opinion.

I'm sure I'll want the gear down well ahead of the pattern for extra drag to help me slow down to pattern speed...

Kidding aside, with all the drag from the floats is the performance really that much worse on a go around with gear extended? I'll betray ignorance here, I don't currently fly retracts of any kind, so I do have some transition training to go through on the amphib (and insurance requires it in any case).

The real issue for me is 18 lbs. Useful load will be marginal already. When on floats and hopping between lakes, I don't have to mess with the gear. On wheels, I won't be operating out of any tight areas, it will be paved airports.

Thanks for the thoughts, it does have me thinking about what pattern work would be like.

A fellow here on the field just bought a 180 with a set of 2705 EDOs installed. Slightly different pump setup, and really clean. Mounted vertically under the instrument panel, with lights. Looks similar to what you pictured.

I believe you will find the manual system to be just fine in the long run. As I noted before a Beaver I flew for several years was equipped with a manual retract system, and it worked fine. I NEVER thought for a moment that a powered system would have been any better.

The 180 on 2705s does NOT need ANY more weight. It's a little underfloated anyway, so unless the airplane is REALLY light, I'd keep it as simple and light as possible. Parker still makes pumps, by the way. Here's a link to the type pump I have in my airplane for skis: http://www.parker.com/portal/site/PARKE ... 8D27&Wtky=

I don't know if they still make the type you need, but I wouldn't be surprised.

If you want, I can do some more research on the airplane that's here.

And, no, you probably won't even be able to determine the difference wheels up/wheels down as far as speed goes. And, pattern work will be a piece of cake. Good work outs for your right arm. Fly from the right seat occasionally to keep em even.

MTV

This thread is getting pretty retro! 17 lbs in the tail cone is going to hurt performance?

I better dump my iPAD for a paper chart next flight, saves 3 lbs forward CG

It's not about the performance, it's about actually being able to carry something without resorting to partial tanks. Already won't be able to use my aux tanks, at least would like to be able to fill the mains.

MTV, thanks for the comments, good to hear about your experience with a manual setup.

You do have a good point. But, try before you buy. Get checked out in an amphib with hand pumping only before you decide.

If you keep the floats bare from paint it saves about 10+ lbs too. I am on the FAA's side, automatic hydraulics is the only way to go for landing gear! It is going to take a FAA sign-off for manually pumping the gear, unless spelled out on TC.

But, I fly solo, are light, and get great mileage too, in my little 8GCBC. Hope you get what is best! Keep the information coming as you go! Thanks.

8GCBC,

As he pointed out earlier, this float installation IS certified with manual hydraulics. The motor was an option.

The 2705 floats are not over floated on a 180, so his weight concern is VERY valid.

And the vast majority of wheel-ski installations have manual hydraulics. I've never heard anyone complain about those.

FWIW

MTV

MTV,

My point is "try before you buy"! And new TCs aren't manual. Sorry, for the weak post, I was not clear.

I do realized it's certificated, and maybe better too. Less is sometimes more. But, for me the flick of a switch is irreplaceable! Both, for skis and floats, I consider it safer.

The engine driven hydraulic pump on my old Aztec, was really small, maybe less weight than electric on Scout. It operated the gear and flaps with tremendous power and speed!

Just thinking out loud. I am definitely learning from this thread and hope we see everyone happy! BTW, I love the sound of the little electric motor when swinging the gear in the hangar on the hoist!

8GCBC,

I appreciate the advice, but trying before I buy is a bit difficult. Not many amphib 180s available for rent. Plus I'm not much of a renter anyway, would rather get trained in my own plane. The set I'm buying is manual. But also well maintained, and in my old home location, which has a lot of advantages. I can always decide later to trade weight for convenience and install a pump (if my wife will tolerate even smaller baggage allowance...).

Dropping the gear definitely slows the plane down in a hurry and/or takes a lot more power to maintain the same airspeed. My W&B shows my '56 C180 / Edo 2700's at 2158 lbs and on wheels at 1722 lbs. I have art wing-x, sportsman, vg's and the aux tank. Everything else is basic. The 2700's I believe are identical to the 2705's other than these were the "electric" motors with no hydraulics. Hot +80F, glassy days and it will get to be stubborn in getting off the water at gross (2950) at 860' ele., but off a paved runway with no problem or cooler temps and any type of chop or ripple and it is OK. But I'm also heavy and full wings and aux tank only leaves me another 24lbs. legal. It takes a "12 count" for my electric system to lower the gear and a little longer to come up. 2 blue lights for water and 2 red for land. It is nice to have the gesr down and organized prior to final. I'm sure you will find the right time to start to pump and once you are comforable knowing how long it takes, you'll get it worked in when it isn't at a critical point of your flight. Same as on wheels skis. You know it needs to be down.

Sky Jeep,

Definitely get amphib STC if properly researched. Train accordingly. Develop a gear routine that is predictable and flyable in a safe performance envelop. Always keep track of your performance numbers ( rarely done with most pilots/aircraft ), a slight change in performance can be dangerous. There is little or none performance buffers, as you mentioned. Keep your personal minimums high! Especially during the flight testing phase!

As noted you may be faced with a forward CG. But, no big deal just put your camping equipment aft.

Send photographs as you proceed... If you want a BFR ( no charge ), come up to Oregon, I will be happy to sign off. You can check out my rig too. The skis are unreal!

Well, I'm finally up in Spokane getting my amphibs installed. They're also working on a Fire Boss, must be the coolest amphib I've ever seen:



Here are my floats, not as cool but still cool to me!


Getting started on hydraulics:


Reservoir will be in a somewhat inconvenient spot because of my Odyssey battery


Planning to finish this week then start some amphib transition training on Friday. Will be a tough compare with my old straight 2870s. Amphib weight and drag offset by the Sportsman and Wing-X I have put on since I last flew floats. But I'll be back on the water!

I will still swap with wheel gear probably back and forth once a year, can't give up backcountry strips!

More as it progresses.

Skyjeep,

Agreed, those Airbosses are sweet!

Glad you're getting back on the water! It's an addiction! Worse than regular flying!

Thanks CamTom, I agree on the water addiction!

Here is how the reservoir ended up:

And the pump before the covers go back on:


Tomorrow the floats go on

I've never flown an amphib, let alone one with a hand-pump. But I've flown a Johnson bar Mooney quite a bit, and when my then airplane pard and I had a TR182, which we rented out since it was the only SE retract on the field insured for student use for commercial applicants, I checked out a number of pilots in it. That always included pulling the CB on the gear and having them pump it down.

It really takes practice to keep control of the airplane while pumping down gear, or manually operating it in the Mooney. Not that it can't be done, because it can, but it takes practice, not just a couple times around the patch. So spend some time doing that, before you get into a tight situation.

Cary

If in your travels, as headed back to CA, if you are near S30 (Lebanon, OR) FBO has 3 courtesy cars, pilot quarters, and cheap gas. If I know ahead you were going to stop and I can get away from work. We could go splash around in some reservoirs near here. There are also some floats guys down in the Cottage Grove area. They have mulitple reservoirs down there to spash in and they usually have lunch downtown everyday. We are all on amphibs. It is a hoot, man! Float flying is one of the funnest things you can legally do with your clothes on! Clothes optional at Burning Man, oops, thread drift! No water near Burning Man, oh well. Off to work

John.

A minor hiccup, turns out that 2705s and 2870s share one type of rigging and 2870As (which I had) are slightly different. There is an extra steel strap at the rear float attach, under the strut attach block. 2870As only have the block. Here's the 2705/2870 attach point:


It was still on the 185 of the guy I bought the 2705s from. Fortunately (for me anyway) my mechanic had been called to fly up to fix a fuel system breakdown on that same 185 so he was able to pull the strap while there, and we only lost a half day or so. Floats attached end of day, hookups and cleanup today.


Cary, I'll see how it goes. Engine driven pump is a pretty simple add-on if I change my mind. I did sit in the plane and try the pump action and I can keep my head up. I have about a 6'7" wingspan so that helps.

Little John, thanks for the invitation!! Won't be able to take you up on it this time, work gets in the way. Rain check? Always good to meet other floats guys and new splash options!

Two things I learned about insurance when I was considering floats. Many here probably know this, but some may not.

1) Some (all?) insurance companies will rate you for floats a month at a time. So you don't necessarily have to pay $12K a year for floats, just $3K for the three months they are attached during the summer.

2) The loss rates on planes on floats isn't significantly higher than for those on wheels. The reason for the higher cost of insurance is that nearly every loss involves a $30-40K bill from a barge crane operator to get the plane off the bottom of the lake.