Just wondering if this is not a good idea for any reason. It's just too easy and works really good. The factory exhaust on my Dodge is 3" pipe and the 3" dryer vent hose fits just over it and stuffs in the cowl flap to blow warm exhaust on the oil pan. My cruise control will idle the engine up to 1500 rpm to produce a good amount of warm air flow. I plug the air intakes and the whole engine cowl warms up.

I can pull the plane out, hook up the heater, and by the time I pre flight, close the hangar doors, etc, the engine is warmed up. Really cold temps require a little more time, but upon startup, the oil temp is instantly in the green. There is no exhaust smell in the plane, but just to be safe, I do give the cockpit a good venting before I climb in.

I also use two drop lights in the cowl overnight if I know I'm going to fly early and its going to be low 30s or colder.

Let me know what you think.

I wouldn't, atleast not on a regular basis... I've done some MAJOR repairs on a C310 that was faried in due to spar corrosion from an exhaust leak. Combustion byproducts are corrosive, not advisable to knowingly soak your expensive firewall fwd area in 'em.

I'd stick to the incandescent heater & a blanket.

I do salute your ingenuity

Hmmm. Not that cold here only 43 F here this morning (KRIR) so I used my $20 heat gun and slid it up my cowl flap and in 45 minutes it heated the oil to 65 F Guess I just saved $34,980 Was in Nebraska a couple weeks ago and borrowed a drop lite w/150w bulb in it put it up the cowl flap rested it on the air box and wrapped a sleeping bag over the cowl at 6pm it was 50F came back in the morning before sun up it was 34F oat and my oil was 63F. Saved another $34,980.

Moisture is the issue, a friend of mine did that on a 206, took of and flew almost two hours in minus 30 when he got to the airport he couldent move the throttle or any other engine controles, makes landing interisting.

We often do it when we need bolth cubs put the generator under one and a little buddy in the other, we just dont do it in extreme cold anymore and we make sure to fly long enough to dry it out.

I've done this three times in a jam, but was told the same thing...that moisture was an issue.

The first time was during college: flew over to Greybull, WY in my Apache to take my sister to a funeral. The FBO had told me that they had a preheater and that it wouldn't be a problem. Upon arrival it was a whole different story. After a drive to Cody for some dryer hose, we got it heated enough to get started and head home.

Second time, similar story in Burley, ID when I went home to visit the parents.

The third time, I got snowed-in in Filmore, UT. Snowed 11" and stuck for 3 days. After about blowing myself up on the preheater that ended up being unusable, another visit to Ace was in order. 30 minutes of idling and we got the 182 started. It works, but apparently extended use isn't good. In a jam, though, it will get you going.

http://shop.wolverineheater.com/USA-Products_c4.htm

Works fine. Two 125W strips on either side of the oil pan get the engine up from 15F to 60F in a couple hours flat with no cowl insulation. I was thinking of adding a unit to the top of the block to help get the cylinders a bit warmer faster. Takes about two hours to install (remove cowl, prep, apply, finish edges with HT silicone, get cords tied to mount near dip stick flap, re-install cowling).

I did this on my PA-22 a long time ago (different brand, same size).

Look, guys....if the outside air temperature is above 30 degrees, you really don't need any pre-heat. Remember that Lycoming says pre-heat below 20 F. With Multi vis oil you really don't need any preheat at these kinds of temps.

And, as to the exhaust idea--there's a LOT of moisture in that exhaust, and you're piping it right into a device that doesn't deal well with moisture--your very expensive aircraft engine. Further, unless you run that thing for a LONG time, you aren't going to warm that aircraft engine a lot. Remember, a PROPER pre-heat results in the entire engine being at a normalized temperature, not just parts of the engine. It takes a while for that heat to normalize. All the while you're burning gas and introducing moisture to your engine and accessories.

MTV

When I got my first 182 I was a member of CPA. I went to one of there system seminars for 182's. On the subject of pre heating, they say that anything under 40 deg F you ought to pre heat. Not that it will not start at lower temps but they say that in the long run it is better for engine life.

Was in a partnership with that plane with a Superior O470 engine "0" time. We followed CPA guidlines on pre heating 95% of the time and took the engine to 1400 hrs without pulling a head. Sold my half of plane to my partner and he took it to a bit over 1700 hrs then the comps came down. That is 1700 hrs in 11 years with agressive leaning and that helps. Oil samples were fantastic.

I do not have near the experience that some folks do but I think John Frank of CPA is on mark. The plane I have now has a Tanis pre heater, is hangared with electricity. Side note is that my comps are low but that is cus prvious owner averaged 30 hrs per year in cold wet area.

Tim

Thanks for the replies. That's was what I was looking for. I didn't know about the corrosive effect and didn't realize the moisture could be so problematic. Now I do and I'm glad I asked. I geuss I won't use the pickup as a heater any more.......I hope I can find another use for it.

The temps here don't require preheating all that often, so that's why I haven't spent $$ on reiff, tanis, or some other preheater system. I think I can get by using some variation of the "home made" heaters I've seen here on this site.

It does seem like the O-470 likes a little help below 35 or 40 degrees though. Without any preheat, it can be awfully hard on the battery and starter. Maybe I need an education on cold temp starting, too?? My mechanic says "give it more fuel", but when it's running out on the ground from the carb and primer overflow, I think it's got all that it's going to take. A lot of times it will fire up and run only for a few seconds and die. It will do this a few times before it finally gets going. Is there something I'm missing here?

You are indeed correct that getting the cold start procedure down properly makes a big difference in how much cranking you will have to do to get the thing fired up.

It's hard to flood one of these engines when they're cold, and plenty of gas is good. The other ingredient, however, is specific throttle position. Mostly, I just open the throttle something between 1/2 and 1 inch from fully closed, and crank. Sometimes, you can start cranking with the throttle at the idle stop, and VERY SLOWLY open the throttle as you crank. When the fuel/air ratio reaches the proper point, vroom.... And then you know about where that throttle should be to start.

MTV

[quote="RWM"]Just wondering if this is not a good idea for any reason. It's just too easy and works really good. The factory exhaust on my Dodge is 3" pipe and the 3" dryer vent hose fits just over it and stuffs in the cowl flap to blow warm exhaust on the oil pan. My cruise control will idle the engine up to 1500 rpm to produce a good amount of warm air flow. I plug the air intakes and the whole engine cowl warms up.

I can pull the plane out, hook up the heater, and by the time I pre flight, close the hangar doors, etc, the engine is warmed up. Really cold temps require a little more time, but upon startup, the oil temp is instantly in the green. There is no exhaust smell in the plane, but just to be safe, I do give the cockpit a good venting before I climb in.

I also use two drop lights in the cowl overnight if I know I'm going to fly early and its going to be low 30s or colder.

Let me know what you think.

Ross:
I think if you put thermometer in exhaust it will come out not much different than O.A.T.- I know that on that flat bed truck or near by is a welder with power outlet. Try one of those "salamanders" found around construction sites in front of airplane -blowing into cowling -heat up the oil cooler side .This looks good too http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1260 ... ckType=G38. Put shipping blanket over top of cowl at night --since you have cowl flaps it's a little hard to get anything from bottom up. I've even got a 5 gallon can with a camp stove and 3 inch dryer pipe to go in my cowl for preheat.

I have a little trouble understanding why one would take a chance of damaging a $30,000 engine to save $600 (the cost of a Reiff complete "standard" system for a 182). I have the "standard" Reiff on my Lycoming ($435) plus the oil cooler heater option ($98), and also a cowl cover, prop covers, and a spinner cover, and it only takes a few hours to bring the engine up to spring-time temps in even the coldest weather. Spending what amounts to about 2% of the value of the engine to save it from premature wear seems like a good investment to me. It also happens to be just about the cost of a new Skytec starter, which is likely to be a necessary expense if one continually has trouble starting in cold weather.

BTW, starting a cold 0-470 isn't all that hard, if it's been maintained and is adjusted properly. I was pards in a 1970 model from 1974 until 1978, when we traded it in for a TR182. Also I did quite a few flights SE charter in mid-70s era Skylanes, and my IR training was all in a 73. This was before anyone was smart enough to have a built-in (or on) engine heater.

In ultra-cold weather (below 0F), we'd have the FBO use the salamander heater on it for an hour, then use the "really cold weather" method next.

In really cold weather (like 0-30F), we'd use 4 shots of prime, then leave the primer out. Full rich. Half an inch of throttle. When starting to crank, shove the throttle in all the way. As soon as it would fire (which it would do right away), pull the throttle back to the half inch mark again, slowly push the primer in. When the temp was close to zero, it might be necessary to give it another shot of prime to keep it running--in that case, shove the primer in more aggressively.

In not-so-cold weather (30-40F), 3 shots of prime, then leave the primer out. Full Rich, half inch of throttle. Again shove the throttle in all the way, then it would fire, pull the throttle back to half inch, slowly push primer in--or if it's having trouble staying running, shove the primer in more aggressively.

I'd never found it necessary to actually pump the throttle more than the one shove.

All that assumed that the timing had been set correctly and the plugs were in good shape. Then we'd have to sit idling for a bit with the avionics on before the tubes would all warm up so that the radios would work. By the time the radios would work, the engine was warm enough to fly.

In ultra cold weather, it was often necessary to fly with the carb heat out in order for the engine to run smoothly (a little trick I learned when I was a student in Alaska).

In all the time I regularly flew Skylanes, I had trouble starting ours just once, and it was because the battery needed to be replaced.

The primer only works on a couple cylinders--that's why the one shove of the throttle helped the engine to start. The danger of pumping the throttle (especially if you do it without cranking) is that you are spraying gas all over the place, so it's easier to start a fire that way.

Another point: When pushing the primer in, you need to do it "aggressively", because that helps to atomize the fuel, which means easier starts.

Cary

RWM wrote:
The temps here don't require preheating all that often, so that's why I haven't spent $$ on reiff, tanis, or some other preheater system. I think I can get by using some variation of the "home made" heaters I've seen here on this site.

It does seem like the O-470 likes a little help below 35 or 40 degrees though. Without any preheat, it can be awfully hard on the battery and starter.

If you don't get a 'complete' system, just get an EZ Heat pad & cover the cowl with a blanket. Preferably a custom fit one, but a sleeping bag or any thick one works. I have had that pad on my O-470 for 15 years & it works great.
http://www.e-zheatproducts.com/shop/ind ... ex&cPath=1
It's $170, That's cheap....sell the truck & spend that $33,000 on 100LL

L-19 wrote:

RWM wrote:
The temps here don't require preheating all that often, so that's why I haven't spent $$ on reiff, tanis, or some other preheater system. I think I can get by using some variation of the "home made" heaters I've seen here on this site.

It does seem like the O-470 likes a little help below 35 or 40 degrees though. Without any preheat, it can be awfully hard on the battery and starter.

If you don't get a 'complete' system, just get an EZ Heat pad & cover the cowl with a blanket. Preferably a custom fit one, but a sleeping bag or any thick one works. I have had that pad on my O-470 for 15 years & it works great.
http://www.e-zheatproducts.com/shop/ind ... ex&cPath=1
It's $170, That's cheap....sell the truck & spend that $33,000 on 100LL

OH no is EZ Flap making heat pads now

I've been thinking about this the last couple of days. If your in a pinch, how about a way to attach a hose to your heater vent inside the cab? Then run the heater on max and the fan on high. and then duct tape the other vents closed so maybe more CFM is going through the one vent your using Again, this is only if your in a pinch and have the right stuff handy.

Cary wrote:The primer only works on a couple cylinders--that's why the one shove of the throttle helped the engine to start. The danger of pumping the throttle (especially if you do it without cranking) is that you are spraying gas all over the place, so it's easier to start a fire that way.

Another point: When pushing the primer in, you need to do it "aggressively", because that helps to atomize the fuel, which means easier starts.

Cary

Both 182B's I have been involved with had priming to all six cylinders.

Tim

Just get a galvanized garbage can lid, build a charcoal fire in it, slide it under the cowling then climb in the the airplane and catch 20 winks.




No, please don't do that. It's a common way to get the damned old rusty truck going in Alaska, but I don't think it's very bright for an airplane. I wonder more about aircraft tied out on the ramp. No power.

I have had great results from these guys.... On our qualifying motors we preheat to ungodly temps to thin the oil for reduced viscosity and faster lap times.... They even offer FAA approved oil pan heaters for a super price too...

http://www.archeat.com/

Ben.