I didn't know if this should go in types, but it seems like there is more traffic here, so here's the question.

What are the real downsides to a 182TW conversion compared to a 180? My Dad and I are looking for a 180, and keep seeing 182TW that are priced lower than a comparative 180.

My question is, what is the downside? Some for sale are STC conversion, some are done with a 337. What is the difference to you and I?

Can a person use skiis legally on one?

I have checked insurance, and it is very comparable--a 62k 182tw is $150 more per year than a 70k 180.

I understand the trim changed in 1962, and we are not interested in any conversions after that point.

I understand the resale will always be less, but it seems to correspond with the up-front cost.

Thanks for the help--Lance

Lance,

The early 182 and 180 were essentially identical except for the gear location. On those airplanes, a converted 182 IS, for all intents and purposes, a 180. And, you should have a great airplane.

The trick here is how well the gearbox was built, and the quality of workmanship on the conversion.

The 182's will always be a little heavier, since they carry TWO gearbox structures. This weight, while not negligible, also isn't huge.

I'd go for it. I'm a bit confused as to why the insurance company would charge a higher premium for a lower hull value 182, however. I'd chat with them about that. After an accident, repairs, including parts, would be the same. I suspect whoever you got the quote from doesn't understand the similarity of the models.

In the very early Cessna singles, everything aft of the door posts was the same--170, 172, 180 all shared aft fuselages and wings. Different empennages.

MTV

Lance,

Have you looked at this 180 in Bismarck?

http://www.aircraftmanagementinc.com/ga ... yid=143532

http://www.aircraftmanagementinc.com/ga ... 838&page=1

It's close for you to look at. I am familiar with the plane, although I have not taken the opportunity to fly it, and can tell you that it is good and clean.

I know the owner and he will not take a short cut, ever.

Bill

My IA has done this a few times with both the STCd (Cessna gear boxes) conversion as well as machining his own gear boxes. I think if you already had the 182 (bought right years ago), or bought one already converted it might pencil out, but buying a 182 and then paying for the conversion would probably be more expensive than just buying a 180...
As MTV pointed out the early 182 is the same ship, so much so that the location / structure around the 180 gearbox is all the same and in the 182 and just skinned over. It is not a difficult conversion...
Incidentally Dan is also working on an M14 powered experimental 180/182

Take care, Rob

This may not mean much to you and it wouldn't to me either but if you have a converted 182 you will not, and I mean this, be admitted to the 180 owners club. You will be looked down upon by the purists, and smirked at. Like I said, who cares if you like your plane, but the 180 owners club thinks it's a big deal.

I have a friend with a 181 we call it. 182 that has been converted. Nice airplane by the way. Iceman is right the 180/185 club would absolutely not allow him in the club.

Dave

This may not mean much to you and it wouldn't to me either but if you have a converted 182 you will not, and I mean this, be admitted to the 180 owners club. You will be looked down upon by the purists, and smirked at. Like I said, who cares if you like your plane, but the 180 owners club thinks it's a big deal.

I've never had any dealings with the 180 owners club, but some of the nicest people I know have attended one meeting, then refused to associate with them. In fact, I can think of one person who's only negative statement I can remember hearing was directed at the 180 owners club, and he has owned a 180 for years... That such a easy going and kind hearted man would roll his eyes and spit at their mention always made me laugh.

Perhaps they suffer an inferiority complex because they can't join the Beaver club...

I've heard the same many times. Maybe they can take a few lessons from the BCP'ers. Thiis is the friendliest group I've come across, and it seems we all have the same love, the back country strips of the world. In any case i know a lot of 180 185 drivers who are great people and fun to be around. Many of them are here and also belong to the 180 club. Could it be that there are a few eggs in that barrel who perpetuate that "holier than thou" attitude? I was at JC during their fly in(Never again incidently) with my Tripacer and you would not believe the sneers and comments i got. I figured , just a few dumb asses. Don't judge the whole bunch by a few. The few, stole my parking spot when I went for food to Mccall and refused to move when I got back.>(that's an unwritten rule at JC by the way.) If there's a lawn chair in a spot park somewhere's else. The guy in my spot said "the wind blew my chair away so he parked there". Had to be a strong wiind to unwrap the tie down chain from the chair. Probably the guy who enforces the converted 182 rule.

I looked at a nice 182 conversion in Idaho last year and thought there were many good reasons for the change.
Straight airframe with no groundloop history.
Low total time on the airframe, 2000tt
Was a personal rather than working airplane so radio's, etc were nicer.
Only downside was 180 STC's did not apply to his airplane as it was still a 182.
Seemed to me like a good way to get a nice 180 if you could do the work.

Doing the conversion isn't a cheap proposition. It takes bucks. Therefore I can't see anyone who does it and has the money to do it would cut corners. That's not to say some would but I would bet most conversions are done well mechanically and structurally. Besides, who other than a few 180 owners and sticklers would be able to tell without a very close look that it is a conversion. I know if I see a clean looking and well cared for 180 I appreciate it for what it is, a 180. " You mean it's a 182 converted". Well then it can't be a good airplane. That's the thinking of the few narrowminded 180 owners I spoke of before. Hey if you like it and it's well taken care of and a fair price is being asked of it. Buy the damn thing and enjoy. I always wanted one and could never bring myself to pay the price asked for a 180. Trouble is converted 182's are almost as expensive..

Well if the type club is that much of a stuffed shirt bunch, I don't think that I would like to hang with them just about as much as they would not like to have me around.

Life is to short for that type of s&^*.

It is to bad as they most likely have good information for the type, at the same time they may be missing a lot of good info from others that are not up to having the "proper type".

This is one of the things that affected the Stinson club about two years ago. The club site went off line for awhile, a second site on yahoo was there as well and most (myself included) go there now.

The first club had a joining fee, and they were off the net for most of the year that I had joined, never got credit for the $ I put in and the fact that the club was down for the best part of a year.

Aside from the 180 guys, I used to belong to the short wing piper club. I used to refer to it as the Short Pecker Piper club. I loved being in it when I owned the tripacer and they were VERY well organized. I attended a few fly ins and they were great folks to hang with. I just wanted a Maule,(If I couldn't have my 180) so I sold the PA 22. and haven't renewed my membership. My point is, I think there are a few in every group who are self centered and basically just assholes. Oh and to set the record straight, I doubt , and of course I don't know, if there are any "SHort Peckered owners in the "SHort pecker Piper Club"

I've had some years in the 180 club, and agree that many seem that they are "gods gift", but there are also many that have been verry willing to help, and very helpful to me. I have many 180 friends that are great/fun people, so like any group, I just try and judge them 1 at a time, and not as a group.

That being said, this is probably one of the most user friendly groups that I have seen or been involved in.

I think the 182 conversion, early model, could be better than early 180.

New gearboxes, no ground loops, cheaper, etc. As long as the workmanship is great.

I have a friend building one now and I'm sure when he is done, it will be VERY nice and VERY hard to tell the difference.


Gary

Thanks for the replies, I had actually heard that about the 180 club--sounds like a pretty narrow minded group if there is a minimum entry fee of $75,000 to join.

I had a Yamaha snowmobile once, those owners were about the same--It could be the worst model in its class, but if it was a yamaha, it was good as gold--very narrow minded bunch.

Do you guys think it would be possible to get a field approval for skiis? We are on a farm strip, and would like to fly on skiis.

Bill--Is that Simmers airplane? I hadn't seen it advertised for a while, how come it hasn't sold--he has had it for sale for a while?

Thanks for the info, I will let you know what we do.

Lance

Yeah we're a great bunch!!!!! Now if we only had Tee shirts

Lance,

So, what are you wanting to field approve skis on, exactly? If it's a 180, or a 182 that's been converted, there are stc's that apply.

The 182 is also STC'd on Landes skis, at least, maybe others as well.

Good luck getting ANY field approval through the Fargo FSDO. If you really do need a FA, send me a PM, and I'll talk to a guy over here on the MN side. Might be able to sneak it by over here. Maybe.

Field approvals are getting really hard to get done anywhere, though, and skis hang out in the breeze, which is generally bad for a field approval.

MTV

Lance,

Yes the 180 is Simmer's. I don't know why it hasn't sold, maybe he doesn't have it listed in the right place. It's on their website and the bulliten board in Air BP. Maybe he doesn't really want to sell it, I'll ask him next time I see him.

I think he's too busy flying to fly it.

Bill

MTV,

Any ideas why the Fargo office is just plain difficult?

They made the news about a month ago, some mechanics and at least one FBO in Fargo said they almost can't change oil any more.

Bill

MTV, I just want to be able to put skiis on the plane, if we end up with a 182TW. I was just curious, and didn't want to not have any options for it if we do buy a 182 TW. Thanks for the help, we will keep it in mind if we get to that point.

Bill, I guess my Dad knows Bob pretty well, so I think he was going to call him. Dad didn't realize it was still for sale, either.

Thanks, Lance

The Fargo FSDO being dogmatic and froward? Probably because there's a lot of flat ground, few if any lakes with trees, wind howling across said flat ground and nothing to do in the winter except freeze, listen to your friends from the other side of the state say,

"Hey they just struck another gusher on our land! Guess we'll have to upgrade our Hatteras Yacht to something more seaworthy and get the place in Aspen to complement the Jupiter Island estate."

and go to Perkin's or Fleet Farm.

This = unimaginative and ornery Feds...