Sorry, Contact. I'd consider it a compliment, mostly. I'm not a huge fan of technology, myself. Too many solutions in search of problems. Have a good night.

CAVU

I consider it a compliment, mostly, CAVU. But then, we are optimists. Look at your callsign. I suppose "avitar" is meant to cover both picture and callsign, but am not sure. I have been criticized for making words up, but that seems pretty popular in most media in the 21st century.

I think going to the cartoon Yoda was to include the cane I am known to use. But it could mean someone thinks I'm a cartoon. I am fine with either. Judgement involves all points of view. I appreciate judgement. All feedback in a discernable language/avitar is useful. When we teach/instruct mostly by talking, the student reaction in control movement is the feedback we are looking for. When writing, we need criticism as well as confirmation where appropriate.

Haven't heard from you in a while. What's up?

contactflying wrote:Haven't heard from you in a while. What's up?

Oh, I don't have that much to share. I’ve been working, being a husband, dad and son, planning trips and still doing a fair amount of flying. We got up to BC and Alberta last summer and made it to Idaho for some camping trips and the eclipse (hurray for Weiser, Idaho! Five Stars!). Our son is learning to fly now, which is a great joy for me. In order to make room for him in the left seat, I’m working on flying from the right seat. That has turned out to be much more difficult than I thought. It’s like I’ve been playing the violin right handed for 30 years, and now I’m supposed to do it left handed. Making progress, though. For all the joy that seeing our son fly brings me, it also puts my heart in my throat. I would not wish him to live a timid or virtual life, and I am assured that he will not. I can only hope that he has been watching and putting things in his experience bucket while flying with me, and that he inherited the yellow stripe on my back. Thanks for asking.

CAVU

Only problem I had with seat position was left seat in the Luscombe. Throttle in the middle made one use left hand on stick. With all control wheels, I grabbed them in the middle. Side made no difference that way. Centerline or any target should be between the legs regardless of seat position.

Gunny and I were talking about primacy. It is good that you are working with your son first. Not that the airport instructor teaches bad things. Just that some techniques can hinder learning others. It is much harder to teach high time pilots to stay in low ground effect a bit longer and to give up a little altitude in the turn rather than load the wing too much. Slow on takeoff and fast on landing are required to pass the test. Teaching him to go fast on takeoff and slow on landing will not corrupt him. All he then has to remember is that the test is just a basic instrument test. All he has to do is make the numbers, plus or minus, come out. Knowing how to make the airplane do what he wants doesn't corrupt that.

CAVU wrote:

contactflying wrote:Haven't heard from you in a while. What's up?

Oh, I don't have that much to share. I’ve been working, being a husband, dad and son, planning trips and still doing a fair amount of flying. We got up to BC and Alberta last summer and made it to Idaho for some camping trips and the eclipse (hurray for Weiser, Idaho! Five Stars!). Our son is learning to fly now, which is a great joy for me. In order to make room for him in the left seat, I’m working on flying from the right seat. That has turned out to be much more difficult than I thought. It’s like I’ve been playing the violin right handed for 30 years, and now I’m supposed to do it left handed. Making progress, though. For all the joy that seeing our son fly brings me, it also puts my heart in my throat. I would not wish him to live a timid or virtual life, and I am assured that he will not. I can only hope that he has been watching and putting things in his experience bucket while flying with me, and that he inherited the yellow stripe on my back. Thanks for asking.

CAVU

CAVU. I couldn’t help but reply to your post. My father sent me solo in his new from the factory C180 some 43 years ago before i went off and signed up with the local flying club. I am still flying that same 180, and so is he. I spent 100’s of hours in the left seat while he was in the right seat and realise now how valuable those hours were to my knowledge base. The two of you have years of adventures ahead of you.

JamieG,

Your father's initial training predates the Practical Test Standards for the PPL and CPL that made both non-hooded basic instrument tests even though they were to evaluate contact flying. Flying with him gave you the chance to learn to fly before confining contact flight to heading plus or minus, altitude plus or minus, V speeds plus or minus, etc. for the test.

Did this contact flying primacy, with your Dad, help your contact flying even though you may have gone on to learn true instrument flying as well?

Contact

contactflying wrote:JamieG,

Your father's initial training predates the Practical Test Standards for the PPL and CPL that made both non-hooded basic instrument tests even though they were to evaluate contact flying. Flying with him gave you the chance to learn to fly before confining contact flight to heading plus or minus, altitude plus or minus, V speeds plus or minus, etc. for the test.

Did this contact flying primacy, with your Dad, help your contact flying even though you may have gone on to learn true instrument flying as well?

Contact

We are Cattle farmers (Ranchers) in NZ, so nearly all our flying was/is off grass strips and all VFR. But I never realised the time I sat next him flying those strips was so valuable until much later on when I was trying to pass that on to a younger pilot my self. I do enjoy your posts now I’ve got my head around the language, but for. Long while I was totally confused.

I grew up "stock farming" or ranching in the Ozarks. The fame was with the cowboys or ranchers further West. We were just farmers. The horses and cows didn't know the difference.

And a nice pasture makes a nice landing zone anywhere in the world.

Thanks, Contact and Jamie. Happy Easter and Safe Flying.

CAVU

contactflying wrote:Hotrod 180,

It was a protest. I was never a disciple of V speeds. The airspeed indicator can do nothing for a pilot in the short final portion of an approach because various altitudes of ground effect each have different mush and stall speeds. And we need to be looking outside on short final anyway.

Many pilots on this site, including you, fly to higher standards than the practical test you passed. Why do we have to use only its lower standard language. A major educational standard of the FAA is that we limit instruction and learning to those things they think are appropriate to our level of certification. My techniques are not difficult for low time pilots to perform well. They are more natural and easy than those in the old PTS. At least my students learned them quickly and well. My problem is that I have only my own, far less than perfect, language to describe them. That is why I have asked others to describe what they see out there and what techniques they use. Many, including you, have been very helpful. They/you have described your techniques in your own words.

We are on our own here. Those above our pay grade have marching orders to make their bureaucratic agencies look good. The public, the people who fund the budgets through taxes, see limits as positive. I don't. I see arbitrary limits as self defeating. They can lead to insecure pilots. The argument as to which is more dangerous, the confident or the happily limited (considered good judgement) will go on forever.

Yes, the V speeds seem insufficient to me as well.

Contact

Interesting discussion. While I initially found your terminology a little confusing, I eventually caught on in the course of reading your ebook and your Contact Flying paperback. I may have a different perspective than many of the other folks on the forum simply because I'm inexperienced. As student pilot still in primary flight training, I can tell you that employing some of your techniques has absolutely helped my progression, mostly by helping keep my eyes off the instruments. The "keep the line between your legs" tip has also worked wonders for my centerline discipline and rudder precision in the Luscombe I train in. Right now, the hardest part for me about your techniques is not being "allowed" to use them yet. For example, the energy management turn makes perfect sense, but it is not what will be on the test I'm studying for. It's hard enough learning to fly without having to try to master two versions of it. You say as much in your book. I look forward to being able to fully delve into some of the things you preach once I've secured my PPL. Then I won't have to worry so much about the delta between the practical test techniques and those your books advocate.

Long story short, in my admittedly limited experience, your techniques are clearly sound even if your vocabulary is different than folks are used to. For a newbie like me who has had far less time to get used to a particular vocabulary, I think it's a little easier to swallow. For all the talented, high-time bush pilots on this forum who have already solidified all these concepts in their minds, it seems the new terminology is a little harder to adjust to.

Just my $0.02...

Thanks for the comments, Liaro. It is truely a privilege to work with young flexible minds. The Luscombe will flex your mind a bit as well.

I have grandsons ages 11, 9,and 7. If they wish, I will supervise their initial training from the back seat of a four place trainer. Like Rob, the drop duster, I want artistic flying to be primary. I have seen primacy of safe maneuvering flight techniques make a huge difference in zero time Ag students.

Your PPL training is good training, just not orientated toward maneuvering near the ground. It will well prepare you for flight by reference to instruments. Like I told all my SMFT trained students, just do what the young instructor says and think of the flight test as a non-hooded basic instrument test.

Using sanctioned terminology, after stabilized approach and just prior to round out (which will be eliminated by this technique) we continue to stabilise descent with power and stabilize apparent brisk walk rate of closure with elevator to achieve a stabilized reduction in altitude from beginning of approach to flair and touchdown while achieving a reduction in airspeed from the point where rate of closure appears to speed up to touchdown at or below Vso.

The standard stabilized approach does not stabilize altitude and airspeed reduction to touchdown. It stabilizes altitude reduction but maintains airspeed to the round out point where everything becomes unstabilized and somewhat uncontrolled. The stabilized approach technique, fine for long runways, is far less adequate for other situations. Precisely controlling altitude and airspeed reduction to touchdown is much more adequate for all situations. The stabilized approach technique is fine to the point where apparent rate of closure begins to speed up. From that point, accurate and precise altitude and airspeed reduction can easily be achieved by maintaining the apparent brisk walk rate of closure to a slow and soft touchdown.

Using my terminology on the ground, where we all have lots of experience, did you notice the huge increase in your apparent rate of closure with that yellow light signal just before you blew through the stop? Well in airplanes, you don't have to stop on the numbers. But, you don't have to blow through them at way too fast apparent rate of closure either. Try the apparent brisk walk. You will like it. Trust me!