Backcountry Pilot • availability of alcohol free fuel in the future???

availability of alcohol free fuel in the future???

Nothing happens without it. Discuss fuel locations, quality, alternatives, and anything else related to this critical resource.
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availability of alcohol free fuel in the future???

I just spoke with our fuel provider here in Ontario "poole oil" and they were telling me that alcohol free premium is getting harder and harder to get due to the fact that less outfits are producing it.

They were telling me that quite possibly by the end of the year if something didn't change that they would no longer be able to provide it.

Was just wondering if anybody else has heard similar things in their area???
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Re: availability of alcohol free fuel in the future???

Agree..it's getting tougher to find. Only one Cenex station here has 91Oct Nolead..always keeping my eye open.
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Re: availability of alcohol free fuel in the future???

I keep hearing talk about the ending of subsidies/tax credits for ethanol production & ethanol blending which makes me hopefull that E-zero gas may be back in greater supply sometime soon. But so far nothing. Luckily a local retailer has made it a point to offer 92 octane clear gas, and has stated they will do so as long as it continues to be available. (but I still test every load)
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Re: availability of alcohol free fuel in the future???

There was one farm supply that carried it over here in the Wenatchee Valley,, now, as of last week, I saw 5 in Wenatchee, and heard there is 2 on lake Chelan. The place I buy gas from in Wenatchee has no ethanol super for $4.07. Not too far from KEAT if you had gas cans with you. I also found that 100 ll is $5.00 in Wilbur WA. Cash only, not really self serve until they explain how the pump works. It is a very AG type of place.
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Re: availability of alcohol free fuel in the future???

Denio,NV. has 92 mogas. you have to taxi-up to the gas station-resturant to get it and everyone looks at you like "only gas, no burger?" great place to meet people that are just hanging out.
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Re: availability of alcohol free fuel in the future???

More places around me are carrying 91 clear.

Good day
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Re: availability of alcohol free fuel in the future???

One only needs to refer to the table in Section 202 of EISA 2007 on page 31. Look at the volume of ethanol required to be blended into gasoline in 2012. It is 15.2 billion gallons minus the 1 billion gallons of bio-diesel in Section IV, minus some part of the advanced biofuel in Section II because there will never be 500 million gallons of cellulosic ethanol produced in 2012 since the 30+ companies that are trying to make cellulosic ethanol can't even make 10 million gallons this year. Anyway about 13.5 - 14.0 billion gallons of ethanol must be blended into gasoline next year. The amount of E85 is micro-miniscule so that means the ethanol will be put into gasoline for our cars as E10. The country might use 140 billion gallons of gasoline this year, but I doubt it, demand is declining, which means the ethanol quotas for next year will take just about every drop of gasoline produced E10 and in 2013 the gasoline pool will be completely swamped with ethanol and the gasoline producers will have ethanol coming out of their ears as their ethanol quota continues to rise. It is called the blending wall. And I guarantee you E15 will change nothing, it is DOA. If you want to know why, read my blog stopethanol.wordpress.com

We are just completing the seasonal blending changeover from summer blend to winter blend and now is the time for the producers to retune their refinery production for more E10, which they must make, the table says so, by changing the process to making BOB (Blendstock for Oxygenated Blending). Once that happens there is no more premium E0, because the highest AKI (octane) for BOB is 90 and most BOB is not legal gasoline for commercial sale anyway.
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Re: availability of alcohol free fuel in the future???

N1593Y wrote:One only needs to refer to the table in Section 202 of EISA 2007 on page 31. Look at the volume of ethanol required to be blended into gasoline in 2012. It is 15.2 billion gallons minus the 1 billion gallons of bio-diesel in Section IV, minus some part of the advanced biofuel in Section II because there will never be 500 million gallons of cellulosic ethanol produced in 2012 since the 30+ companies that are trying to make cellulosic ethanol can't even make 10 million gallons this year. Anyway about 13.5 - 14.0 billion gallons of ethanol must be blended into gasoline next year. The amount of E85 is micro-miniscule so that means the ethanol will be put into gasoline for our cars as E10. The country might use 140 billion gallons of gasoline this year, but I doubt it, demand is declining, which means the ethanol quotas for next year will take just about every drop of gasoline produced E10 and in 2013 the gasoline pool will be completely swamped with ethanol and the gasoline producers will have ethanol coming out of their ears as their ethanol quota continues to rise. It is called the blending wall. And I guarantee you E15 will change nothing, it is DOA. If you want to know why, read my blog stopethanol.wordpress.com

We are just completing the seasonal blending changeover from summer blend to winter blend and now is the time for the producers to retune their refinery production for more E10, which they must make, the table says so, by changing the process to making BOB (Blendstock for Oxygenated Blending). Once that happens there is no more premium E0, because the highest AKI (octane) for BOB is 90 and most BOB is not legal gasoline for commercial sale anyway.


What he is saying is that unless our lawmakers change, we are screwed. Let me change my wording arround. What he is saying is that unless we change our lawmakers, we are screwed.
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Re: availability of alcohol free fuel in the future???

You guys are entertaining. You refer to E0 as clear. Actually, pure ethanol is what I'd call clear---bet you guys haven't seen any of the finished product---I have. The 87 oct. straight unleaded around here has a golden cast. If the idiots in charge would allow E30, we wouldn't have any blend wall,we wouldn't be exporting so much ethanol, and you guys could probably get straight unleaded. There are tests with E30 that show it gets the same or better mileage in some cars----2007 Toyota Camry got slightly better with E30 than straight unleaded.Vapor pressure is actually lower with E30 than straight gasoline. I've been using E30 in a 1995 Ford Aspire since August of 2002 and it still runs good and gets between 30 and 38 mpg depending on how many errands a tank does. 2000 Buick gets about 27 mpg making 16 mile jaunts on E30. Ethanol is the crutch Big Oil needs so they can produce the sub octane gas that is cheaper for them to make. It will be interesting to see what happens after the end of the year---tax credits for ethanol will be gone.
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Re: availability of alcohol free fuel in the future???

For you N1593Y

Coskata, Inc.'s Semi-Commercial Facility Demonstrates Two Years of Successful Operation
With More than 15,000 Run Hours, Company Focus Turns to Commercial Scale Facilities

MADISON, Pa., Oct 14, 2011 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- Coskata, Inc., a developer of technology for the production of advanced biofuels and biochemicals from biomass and waste materials, achieved two years of successful operations at their cellulosic ethanol semi-commercial facility in Madison, Pennsylvania this month. The facility has amassed over 15,000 run hours of operation and successfully converted wood biomass and municipal solid waste into fuel-grade ethanol.

"The data and operating experience cultivated at this pre-commercial scale facility has conclusively demonstrated that the Coskata technology is ready for commercial production today," said Coskata President and Chief Executive Officer Bill Roe. "With an industry leading yield of more than 100 gallons of ethanol coming from a dry ton of wood biomass, we look forward to working with industry partners to rapidly deploy this leading conversion technology and help the country meet the Renewable Fuels Standard."

The integrated biorefinery, which utilizes plasma gasification technology provided by Westinghouse Plasma Corporation, a wholly owned subsidiary of Alter NRG, was built to demonstrate the commercial readiness of the Coskata technology. It is the largest scale facility that has utilized syngas fermentation into ethanol technology.

"The Coskata technology has shown that it can convert syngas produced by Alter from a wide variety of feedstocks, into fuel grade ethanol," says Alter CEO Mark Montemurro. "We are very excited about offering our customers the option to make ethanol from syngas. The ability to economically produce liquid transportation fuels from municipal waste in commercial volumes is a significant shift in the choices of alternate energy platforms and may have project development cycles shorter than that of electric power."

The technology proven at the Pennsylvania facility will be used at the company's first commercial-scale facility in Alabama, of which Coskata was awarded a conditional commitment for a loan guarantee from the United States Department of Agriculture.

The successful run time of the facility is a significant advancement for the industry, and a tangible demonstration that cellulosic biofuels from this advantaged process are ready to be deployed.

About Coskata

Coskata, Inc. is a biology-based renewable energy company with a platform technology that enables the low-cost production of biofuels and chemicals, from virtually any carbonaceous material. Using anaerobic microorganisms and innovative bioreactor designs, we create and enable additional energy resources worldwide.

The process combines the flexibility of gasification with the efficiency of biological conversion of syngas into fuels or chemicals. Coskata has assembled an experienced management team to lead the development and commercialization of its compelling technology. For more information, please visit www.coskata.com .
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Re: availability of alcohol free fuel in the future???

Hey Marty, I have news for you. Our 91 or 92 what ever it is, in Oregon is clear like water. Our distributor even refers to it as 92 Clear. Go figure. I'm lucky, even if they go to 90 OCT clear, my STC is good for 87 or greater. The pistons out of my engine show no sign of any mogas detonation issue.

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Re: availability of alcohol free fuel in the future???

Our 91 Oct here has a slight brown tint to it...dye in the gas. Actually when I worked in the refinery all gasoline was clear..you could not tell what the gasoline was by it's color. Unleaded was not dyed, regular leaded gas was Bronze in color with dye, and Premium was dyed red, diesel fuel was green..now non highway use diesel is red. The only natural colored fuel was heavy #2 diesel in the summer time because of the blend, it had a slightly yellow color with no dye added.
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Re: availability of alcohol free fuel in the future???

here in oklahoma almost every fuel stop have signs on the pumps saying no ethanol or alcohol. many have separate pumps for ethanol. Some even put signs out by the road saying 100% percent pure gas. All the old timers here refuse to buy anything but pure gas.

I know nothing about the differences in different tints/quality/grades of gas (probably should though), but here it seems like quality mogas is easy to come by and everyone is using it as a marketing tactic.
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Re: availability of alcohol free fuel in the future???

Several weeks ago I ran out of sources for ethanol free gasonline in Salt Lake City. Every bulk fuel distributor I have called claim ethanol free is no longer available at the rack at any of the Utah refineries! Looks like the wave has finally crashed here as well. If anyone knows a source for pure gas in Northern Utah, please let me know. Thanks.
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Re: availability of alcohol free fuel in the future???

Craigs Service 904 South 1300 East in Salt Lake has it. :lol: I just talked to the owner. He actually buys it out of Vegas and DOES have Ethanol free premium. Spread the word and hopefully he can afford to keep selling it.
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Re: availability of alcohol free fuel in the future???

Its true! Thanks Jaerl. Just filled up 60 gallons of ethanol free this afternoon from Craig's service in Salt Lake. The owner told me it is a 24 hour pump and a fresh shipment of 92 octane premium ethanol free gas will arrive tomorrow. Current price $3.98/gal. It is a sad fact that clean fuel has to be trucked in 400 miles from Las Vegas when there are FIVE refineries in Salt Lake!
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Re: availability of alcohol free fuel in the future???

Most of the the reservations around here have ethanol free. The number of boats and snowmachines in the Finger Lakes and in Northern NY seem to be causing more marinas and gas stations to carry ethanol free gas again too.

Here's a site that is a good reference, but a call ahead to confirm is a good idea before driving very far to stock up.

http://pure-gas.org/
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Re: availability of alcohol free fuel in the future???

I talked to to a lady at the Sinclair refinery about a year ago. She told me a few places like West Yellowstone will never have ethanol because of all the snow machines in the winter. I guess when there's a demand it will still be sold. I was really happy to find this place in Salt Lake, just wish it was closer. Good thing I have a Jetta TDI so it only take a gallon and a half to get there and back.
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Re: availability of alcohol free fuel in the future???

I think that it is good to hear that there are more places that are starting to sell or keep clear mogas.

It is available at the Buhl airport by Twin Falls, usually 15 to 20 cents higher than in town, it was 3.89 the other day when I fueled.

The oil distributer here is trying to keep in stock all the time.

If you are coming through the one bad thing is that the fbo does not take cards, however, he has a car to get to the atm if needed. [-o<
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Re: availability of alcohol free fuel in the future???

180Marty wrote:For you N1593Y

Coskata, Inc.'s Semi-Commercial Facility Demonstrates Two Years of Successful Operation
With More than 15,000 Run Hours, Company Focus Turns to Commercial Scale Facilities
...


Impressive puff piece Marty, just one small problem. Nowhere did they discuss the cost of the resulting product. Appears to be slanted to getting money from gullible investors to help build the production plant in Alabama, as they have gotten massive loan guarantees from the taxpayers, so if the resulting product isn't economically viable or the plant doesn't get completed, which often happens with ethanol plants, we'll get to pay for it as usual. We lucky folks in Oregon got to watch $20 million dollars of our tax money evaporate in the failure of the big new plant in Clatskenie, OR that crapped out in 6 months. I doubt the plant would ever get built without corporate welfare payments from us taxpayers? Never understood what it is about ethanol that it can't compete in a free market after 30 years of government welfare. BTW, the pilot plant does not demonstrate that the process is scalable, a huge uncertainty in biological conversion processes.

And if you google a bit about the Coskata process, it looks pretty iffy that they can produce a commercially viable product, they say they are shooting for $1 / gallon (like every ethanol producer has always claimed) and most other people are saying "dream on". Does that remind you of a certain company in the 100 octane unleaded gasoline race?
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