Well to start I am Pi**ed!

I have been flying since 1989. Have bought most of my supplys through Chief Aircraft in Grants Pass. Yes I know they advertise here. However after 19 years, a com radio, 4 head sets, intercoms, pilot supplies, oil filters, oil filter adapter, starters, batteries... the list goes on. I have purchased my very last product from Chief.

Back ground. I purchased through Chief in September a rebuilt carb, to the tune of $1450.00 including the core deposit. Anyway the carb turned out to be a turd. The local FBO charged me $560.00 for taking the carb off and on three different times, two of those times it was sent back to ACI in Dallas. In short I asked ACI, Quality Aircraft and Chief to pick up the extra cost of the repair work due to the defective carb.

The end of it, Robert at ACI, and the folks at Quality were good enough to cover a share of that extra work. My hats off to them and I would suggest if you need their services please use them, good folks.

On the other hand Chief washed their hands of the whole deal, not their problem. We don't cover that type of expense. Your problem, I was told. Fine!

Reputable remanufacture - ACI - Priceless
Reputable Supplier - Quality - Priceless
Losing a 20 year customer - Chief - $186.66

From now on Aircraft Spruce, Pacific Coast Avionics, will get the rest of my business for the next 20 years.

C ya, Bub

Hate to tell you, Bub, but I had the same experience with Spruce, except their supplier also refused to do anything. The same supplier lost its FAA certification due to shoddy work shortly after the whole fiasco. Spruce washed their hands of the whole deal. I didn't get a dime for the labor and down time I lost.

Posting your experiences, good and bad, is the best remedy. Resellers who don't vet their suppliers and then refuse to make it right with their customers will ultimately pay the price.

CAVU

Hey Bub,

I feel your pain, last year we went through the same thing with a 0-320 carb on the RV.

Ended up just trading there POS carb into Lycon for a good one. The guys at Lycon worked on it while the engine was in there test stand and never could make it right.

They will never miss you, that is the real tragedy.

WalMart claims when they piss off a customer it costs them $250,000 over the lifetime not just in what they spend but because of the word of mouth (bad) advertising.

Others dont have a clue

I prefer Aircraft Spruce. Certainly over the years there have been some problems. They have always, sometimes with prodding, resolved any issue for me. They have met or beat anyone's prices. I do not know where we would get all the aircraft parts if it were not for Spruce.

flyer

At what point was it determined that the product you purchased from them was defective?

I know that if I was a retailer and a customer racked up a list of maintenance bills from shop X, and then tried to get me to reimburse them for the work, I'd only oblige them with a new part and pass the buck to the manufacturer for the compensation. Most of my favorite retailers will refund you the cost of the part, but none that I know of will reimburse you for work costs.

What did you ask for, and what was their exact response?

If you were in their shoes, would you eat all of that expense after a customer had taken into their own hands to fix the part by tasking other service professionals?

Zane,
It was after the second installation and removel and return to ACI that it was determind that the carb was a POS. I kept Chief, Quality and ACI in the loop the entire time.

What I asked for was that the three pony up 1/3 of the bill to cover the extra cost due to the junk part. ACI ponied up a new repalcement carb that worked and both ACI and Quality came across with $186.66, 1/3 of the maintenance bill.

Chiefs response was as you said, not responsable for others work. I figured 1/3 was fair enough. Two other vendors thought so and 1 did not. Pretty cut and dried in my book.

Like Mr. Scout said they will never miss me, however I will take every chance I get to discourge others from using them as a vendor. After buying from them for 19 years, between 4 to 5K in business in that time, it came down to $186.66.

C ya, Bub

Bub,

Several years ago, I called Chief to ask some questions about one of their products.

In short, they badmouthed the competition, acted as if I was a total idiot (perhaps well founded), and TREATED me as such, including some pretty insulting responses to what I thought was reasonable questions.

I would never deal with Chief again, as a consequence.

Oh, yeah, their prices were higher than Spruce, and Spruce answered my questions.

MTV

I just last week ordered Whelen's new LED Nav light/Strobe combo from Spruce. I asked them many questions about TSO's & warranty that the CSR couldnt answer but they researched them and called me back 3 times to the extent that it drove my wife nuts.

I called Chief inquiring about the same item and they said " we dont carry the new LED's but we should because many people are calling about them". " Do you expect to carry them soon" I asked. "Who knows"........

I'll stick with Spruce.

"Who knows"

I just ordered some stuff from Sacramento Sky Ranch. The salesman was not the most knowledgeable, but was extremely accommodating and worked hard until we got what I needed. Parts were delivered promptly, and he didn't even argue with me when I asked him to ship USPS Priority. All in all, a great experience, will do business there again.

gb

Not to jump on lynching the Chief, as I've never had a good or bad purchasing experience with them...but every time I try to find anything on their web site I get so pissed off I have to take a time-out and beat a puppy to death. Just kidding...about the puppy. I love puppies. Kittens too. But I HATE the chief web site...the stupid wall paper that makes it impossible to make out what you're looking at...the ineffective and inane search engine which makes it absolutely ridiculous to search for a product and think you'll actually find it...the complete lack of information about what you're proposing to purchase... I keep trying to buy from them, but it never works out. Honestly it's the web site...it's just not what it needs to be.

As far as the carb issue...I give HUGE cudos to any company that stands behind what it builds or sells, and I damn to Oklahoma any entity that doesn't. If you sell it, you are responsible for it, at least to the tune of the profit you made off it.

Its almost always the little things that drive people away.

As a manufacture there are times when you just want to pull your hair out.
Dealers often get caught up in tripping over dollars to pick up dimes. Now days customer service is #1 people can buy from whom ever they choose.

Many manufactures would love to go direct but it seldom works.

I remember a couple years back when I bought a engine heater for the Scout from Spruce, It didn't fit and they said since I opened the package they wouldn't return it.

It was the one they listed as being correct, a call to Wi. and the owner of the company agreed I had the wrong one, and said Spruce told him they didn't have room in there catalog for the entire application list.

So there are always bumps and bruises along the way. All we can really do is pay our money and take our chances.

Most mean well but all have there days of deficiencies,

Bub the only way to get even is keep doing business and become a large pain in the ass.

Skylane wrote:
What I asked for was that the three pony up 1/3 of the bill to cover the extra cost due to the junk part. ACI ponied up a new repalcement carb that worked and both ACI and Quality came across with $186.66, 1/3 of the maintenance bill.

I'm not terribly surprised about Chief (or any vendor) not paying for repairs. An unscrupulous person could, potentially, game the system by forging or overstating the repair costs. But tossing in a portion of what they would expect a repair to be seems fair.

That sure says something about ACI and Quality. Sounds like they are companies that stand behind their products and are worth doing business with.

Craig

I have used ACI for quite a few years now. Mainly with our DC-3 carbs. I have called them lots of times with mystery questions on injection carbs and they are always willing to help.

As a shop I dont ever use a distributor for carb repair/exchange/overhaul, etc. It is better to send it to someone who is going to look at it and overhaul it themselves in case of the above mentioned problems. It is alway nice to deal direct not through a middle man.

Same goes for mags, starters, etc. I have had lots of new overhauled parts right out of the box not work or not last to long.

I use Spruce, Chief, Sac Sky Ranch, Aviall and others when needed and between those 4 I can usually get what I need within a day or so.

WW

I agree with Scout that customer service is #1 these days. I've gotten to the point with outdoor gear retailers that I choose the ones who are slightly higher priced and have unlimited return policies over the ones who have an initially lower price on any given item.

This seems like a special case though. No retailer that I know of will shell out cash to any customer if it negates the value of doing business in the first place.

My dad is a sales associate for Chief, he's the guy you talk to when you make a phone order. He tells me these stories about tripping over himself to accommodate weird orders, and does research for customers to make sure they're getting the right parts, even double checking the guys who seem like hey know what they want.

I'm sorry you weren't able to get the reimbursement Bub, but I pretty much agree that the retailer's responsibility ends with giving you a refund. Any product warranty (including service to install/remove) is the responsibility of the manufacturer, because obviously it can get tricky when you're asking for a reimbursement that is probably 200% of the markup on that item.

I also find it funny that in this day and age people are so sensitive to the kind of shopping "experience" they have. I include myself in this, I'm not pointing fingers. If you leave a place feeling like they really did you a solid, and give a shit, even if they were acting, you'll go back. Even if you never go back, it sits well with you knowing you gave your money to someone who seems deserving of it. But hell hath no fury like an old pilot who feels mistreated by a mail order joint. I think I've felt that way about most maintenance shops too. Most of my former clients probably feel that way about me.

1SeventyZ wrote: But hell hath no fury like an old pilot who feels mistreated by a mail order joint.

Yep that be me I suppose I asked for to much. In 1998 I pert near rebuilt my "54" 180 though them. But after all I'm just a number - visa number that is. The tone of voice I had on the phone I get from the misses enough, and that pretty much set my tone.

C ya, Bub

gbflyer wrote:I just ordered some stuff from Sacramento Sky Ranch. The salesman was not the most knowledgeable, but was extremely accommodating and worked hard until we got what I needed. Parts were delivered promptly, and he didn't even argue with me when I asked him to ship USPS Priority. All in all, a great experience, will do business there again.

gb

Yessir. GOOD folks at Sac Sky. I had a quite lengthy chat with Mr. John Schwaner...author of the Skyranch Engineering Manual, several years ago. Man, that guy knows about airplane engines like nobody's business. He was patient, and obviously passionate about the subject at hand, and answered all my questions to the nth detail. I also had to order some magneto P lead connectors and the ones I needed were rather unusual. They sent the wrong ones. When called, they immediately express mailed the right ones and I got to keep the others. No charge.

Get that engineering manual folks. It's the bible of aircooled airplane engines.

Brian Denk

..on one of these sites a while back, someone had ordered a new spark plug wire set. It came with the plug ends on both ends of the wire. I wonder if he got them returned without a hassel?

Personally, I have been treated fair by both of those outfits. John

Well first let me apologize for my orignal rant. Chief stood by their policy and are in their right to do so. In no way did I intend to insult or offend the fine folks that work there. To have worked through them for the last 18 years, since 1989 and to have only one issue, I suppose is truly remarkable.

In part my rant has to do with the cost of aviation as a whole. $5.00+ a gallon gas, rising insurance, then to get hit with an additional maintenance bill for a defective part just blew my skirt up. When Quality and ACI helped out I had my hopes up.

Again Chief and Dana I Apologize! Thanks Zane for keeping/putting things in perspective.

C ya, Bub

Bub, thanks for follwing up.

What Bub is referring to is that I received a response to this thread from Dana, the owner and president of Chief. He is very aware of the situation, and his explanation of the situation was quite rational and well supported.

I'm not going to post it only because it gets into a detailed account of how Bub's maintenance shop may have done some things that are not completely kosher, and even documented those things on the invoice. I'm not going to be the one to call them out and incriminate anyone. Bub is in a shitty place too, because he's paid for all these services, the legality of which are in question.

Most retail outfits have a procedure for warrantying an item. Be sure to read their policies posted in their catalog and on their website regarding how to effect a warranty claim, and what to expect.

I am of course biased, but in my experience and proximity to Chief's day to day business, their people do go out of their way to provide a good retail experience, and spearhead many warranty claims. I've heard a whole lot of stories to the opposite effect, with people who turn to Chief because Spruce or Univair pissed them off.

Finally, Chief doesn't advertise with us in the traditional sense. I run their ads on the homepage, and in turn all BCP readers get a 5% discount. Oh, and my dad gets to keep his job.

Skylane wrote: Chief, the fine folks that work there.

I've used Chief since day one and can say nothing but good about those folks. Admittedly some changes over the years, but all minor details, and bottom line is they take care of their customers.

And no press"1" for English. You call, they speak airplane. That's the language I want to hear when I'm fixin' something.

Gump