What I went over to Douglas Wyoming the other day to eyeball, it had been a year since the last time I was in the neighborhood and it is coming together nicely. I hope you like carbon fiber because there is a lot of it in it, carbon ribs (over aluminum spars) carbon control surfaces, and the top and bottom wing surfaces will be sheet carbon! With the manually controlled slats that suck up tight to the wing in cruise, with no drag hit, and then extend (a lot) in a way that interacts with the wing airfoil optimally, the stall speed/top speed projections are somewhat believable though maybe not to most. Now, the computer projections are saying 12 mph-145 mph

The flaps are what I believe are called double slotted Fowlers, and extend 60 degrees, and the ailerons droop also. When the slats are fully out and the flaps down, this thing will look awesome.The CNC fittings and tracks that make all this happen are beautiful and of course optimized for lightness and strength. The fuselage, in contrast to the wing, is more or less conventional, though it does have some super practical touches: 7' of hard flat floor (more carbon) behind the pilots seat, that you can hose out. All control linkage hidden and out of harms way, and two very large doors. I neglected to ask about the tail feathers, but I'm guessing they are more or less tried and proven and not as radical as that wing. Gear will be choice of cub style of leaf spring for higher cruise/less drag.

They seem to be giving the traditional aircraft engine proponents, a large chunk of their potential customer base, a big whatfor as the plan is to use a modified Rotax 912, the power to weight advantages are just too good to pass up. This is a special Rotax engine though, largely built up of non Rotax components but using it's crank case, 145 horse, and of course with a turbo. Carbs for now. According to the engine people, who reverse engineered the 912, this 145 remains very conservative for the design, and not even close to compromising reliability.

They had the shop's resident Rans S-7S slatted and equipped with one of these engines, and it is used for coyote hunting on a regular basis. Performance of this plane is spectacular I'm sure, with all that power, big wing, and the empty weight below 800 pounds.

First flight of the new bird is up in the air, month or so, maybe less maybe more. They are gearing up for production as this prototype goes together, so it takes longer then a one off bird. Price is any ones guess, I didn't ask. Marketing is not being done right now, and I really like that they are not hyping a yet unknown airplane in advance, and like before don't expect to call them up and waste their time talking about it they are too busy with the regular big Cubs they build and the new LSA, they are the kind of company that will wait until they have a proven product and THEN release it, what a refreshing concept.

Great trip, short but educational, though the local drivers sure drive fast, at least they were passing me on the flight back. It could have been the wind, though I see the state has erected these large turbines in an attempt to slow the wind down, they seemed to be ineffective.

Awesome. Just looked at the pictures on their website and it looks they are using a spring gear on the prototype instead of a cub style gear. Personally, I would prefer the cub style gear.

They plan to offer both, the fuselage is all set up for both, but in order to show off the presumed high speed it will have the spring gear on the prototype. I too would go with the cub style gear. If the high speed is due to low drag in the wing, then flying it at a slower speed should result in some pretty impressive fuel burns, anything over car traffic keeps me happy!

Looks VERY nice. Glad to see they're using more "conventional" spar material. I never could get my head around tubular spars for the long run.....how to inspect inside for corrosion. I know, I know....there's a mess of them out there.

Anyway, looks like a great piece of work. Those guys build nice stuff.

MTV

Having flown that 145 hp Rotax with the slats, I can vouch for the fact that it is fantastic. I can also vouch for the fact that they build good stuff at BCS, and that this is going to be a special plane once they get it together. I'm with you guys--I much prefer an outfit that proves its concept before bragging it up. Very much looking forward to seeing what this bird will actually do.

I'm with you on the fast drivers in Wyoming, Tom. I took off from Laramie today in 29 gusting 38, hit 50+ headwinds north of Elk Mountain, and didn't think I'd ever make it home. It bordered on being one of those days where it might have been better to be "down there wishing I was up here," instead of the opposite.

That wing looks like a beautiful piece of engineering and construction . I like the idea of stowing all the control "stuff" ,cables and such, in a basement below the floor. If I was to build a s7 or rebuild my old one, that would be a great mod.
Love their shop space too, so neat and clean. I can't even change the plug and oil in my lawnmower without turning my shop into a disaster area.

Wow - now that is seriously cool!!!

Awesome to see guys out there experimenting with extreme STOL designs!

Cool looking do they have a " wide version " something easier to get in out of ?

Ranchpilot,
Who does the slats for the S-7? Are they modified Mackey slats? Do they really do much without fowlers behind them?
Tom

Tom, those are Mackey slats, modified to fit the S-7. I don't remember whether they shortened them or not, but they did have to play around a bit to figure out how to tie them in the ribs.

I'm not sure how many, if any, other S-7s are flying around with slats, but it makes a big difference in the low and slow applications. These slats and the 145 hp Rotax make an already-good plane into something pretty special. These slats do seem to be a little more draggy on the S-7 than they are on the Cub--the stock slats might be a tad big for the Rans wing. The new light sport won't have that problem, since the slats will be fully retractable into the wing.

When Mackey originally designed this slat, he knew it was a compromise between drag and performance. The placement on Cubs strikes the best possible balance between the two, but it results in the really nose-high AOA if you want to try and milk the last bit of performance out of them. For the light sport, the retractable slats allow the slat to be extended out into optimal position in the middle of the leading edge, but you don't get the drag penalty for the placement in cruise because you can manually retract the slat back into the wing.

I've flown 4 different planes with slats and I think they made a positive difference on all of them. Slats are already one of the first mods I would put on an experimental plane. If they can truly get rid of the drag penalty with this retractable slat design, it would make slats a no-brainer for me. I know some good pilots who will tell you that slats saved their bacon in some tough situations low to the ground. I've never flown Slats and Fowlers together, but the slats work good even without them. (The guys who have flown both together say they are even more incredible.)

RP, the day I dropped by the plant, Bruce was in Gillette all day, else I would have begged for a flight demo! First, to see, hear, and feel the new engine power, second the slats performance. I agree no doubt they add drag, not that that matters when down in the sage brush flight levels! For myself, slats on the S-7 would be way down the list of desired mods, until they get them to where they add no or little weight or drag......the slow speed performance is so good right now I don't feel the need to fix something that isn't broke, and I'd be loath to give up the modest cruise speeds I have now. Having said that, I'd always be willing to change my mind once I saw first hand what they do! Having the slats almost makes more power a given, to really fully utilize them, and I'm not real sure just yet I want to start down that slippery slope. My 10 hr flight there and back averaged a hair over 4 gph, and that was only because I got in a hurry a few times or it would have been less.

Coming back from Thermopolis, I looked at the Wind River Range, and did what I have done in the past, I went AROUND them, to the south, ha ha, even then that south pass is what, 9K plus? I figured if I went over them I'd have to keep an eye out for you instead of enjoying the view.

If I was flying coyotes full time, I would want slats on a Rans. If not, I'm not sure I'd want to give up the cruise either. If I had an experimental Cub, I'd have slats on the wing now matter what I was using it for. The drag doesn't seem to be nearly as noticeable in the Cub.

In terms of the Winds, I've been spoiled with some really nice fall weather that has allowed me to fly right up into the heart of them. However, I only go when the mountain decides to let me--all other times I go around just like you did. The hardest I've ever hit my head in an airplane was on the east side of the winds. Clear air turbulence from a storm 40 miles uprange in Pinedale. I learned a lot in a short amount of time about the roll that can come off the back side of those tall rocks.

I am kicking around the idea of putting slats on my S-7S, and in googling around, looked what popped up! This old thread....still makes me want to go to Douglas again, and see what's up there now.

courierguy wrote:I am kicking around the idea of putting slats on my S-7S, and in googling around, looked what popped up! This old thread....still makes me want to go to Douglas again, and see what's up there now.

I can absolutely positively guarantee...Ya won’t regret it....

Think it'd be worth making composite ones flyrite? Enough weight savings over aluminum to make it worthwhile? For a weight weenie like me, who also has a great composites guy close by, who is also a S-7 maven? If the two of us came up with a "carbon fiber slat kit" for S-7's", with me financing the project and providing the get go, it may turn into a thing, a way to provide them to others. A very small market no doubt, and no way to get rich but maybe break even, almost.

Another way, though I have never actually met Bruce at BackCountry, always missing him on my trips to Douglas, would be to pick up the phone and see if he'd want to knock off a set for me exactly like he's been flying with for some time, and just send him a check, if so. I am too busy to feel like getting into a long drawn out experimental flight test phase, it'd cut into my flying time! I have no idea if he'd entertain the thought, but money talks I guess and heck they are in business to sell airplane stuff. Bolting/screwing on a set with everything all figured out, would be a no brainer and something I'd jump on. I LIKE spending money on my plane now and then, it feels like payback for the 2500 hours of great times it's given me, with no major drama or complications, I start feeling guilty if I don't!

Tom,
Maybe contact Carbon COncepts in Alaska. Randy Apling, I believe. He is a heck of a nice guy and makes carbon products. A fellow Rebel owner got a set from him and really spoke highly of the the improvement after adding the carbon slats. Maybe just give him a call and pick his brain a bit. I have his card here somewhere, if I find it I can forward his info.

Found it:

Carbon Concepts
Randy Apling
907-244-7505

courierguy wrote:Think it'd be worth making composite ones flyrite? Enough weight savings over aluminum to make it worthwhile? For a weight weenie like me, who also has a great composites guy close by, who is also a S-7 maven? If the two of us came up with a "carbon fiber slat kit" for S-7's", with me financing the project and providing the get go, it may turn into a thing, a way to provide them to others. A very small market no doubt, and no way to get rich but maybe break even, almost.

Another way, though I have never actually met Bruce at BackCountry, always missing him on my trips to Douglas, would be to pick up the phone and see if he'd want to knock off a set for me exactly like he's been flying with for some time, and just send him a check, if so. I am too busy to feel like getting into a long drawn out experimental flight test phase, it'd cut into my flying time! I have no idea if he'd entertain the thought, but money talks I guess and heck they are in business to sell airplane stuff. Bolting/screwing on a set with everything all figured out, would be a no brainer and something I'd jump on. I LIKE spending money on my plane now and then, it feels like payback for the 2500 hours of great times it's given me, with no major drama or complications, I start feeling guilty if I don't!

Tom, I don’t believe I would try and reinvent the wheel. If I could buy a set already custom made for my particular mount , I would buy those. And yes reward that airplane you’ve been riding it hard for hours, it’s time to give it a little something purty to wear!

One thing I am totally unclear on is, as a for instance: would slats made for a Rebel, be appropriate for a S-7, assuming the installation was done correctly of course? Forget i asked that, no need for me to waste any brain cells on all this, others have done it all already, and Bruce at BackCountry is the obvious guy to check off my list first, and maybe last, as a knowledgeable AND specific to the S-7 source of info. I will next decide whether or not to go though the official BCC website/email address, or something less formal, like pick up the phone, in order to get the flow of information going. Then I'll work down the line, to other slat knowledgeable people, though with no S-7 use.

Interesting reading here.....breaking things is a good way to figure out how NOT to break them, and i'm sure they learned a lot about that:
http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2016/09/b ... ident.html

One thing I am totally unclear on is, as a for instance: would slats made for a Rebel, be appropriate for a S-7, assuming the installation was done correctly of course? Forget i asked that, no need for me to waste any brain cells on all this, others have done it all already, and Bruce at BackCountry is the obvious guy to check off my list first, and maybe last, as a knowledgeable AND specific to the S-7 source of info. I will next decide whether or not to go though the official BCC website/email address, or something less formal, like pick up the phone, in order to get the flow of information going. Then I'll work down the line, to other slat knowledgeable people, though with no S-7 use.

Interesting reading here.....breaking things is a good way to figure out how NOT to break them, and i'm sure they learned a lot about that:
http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2016/09/b ... ident.html

10 minutes later... it's 1/4 mile viz here this morning, with sleet, so no breakfast flight today, but I fired off a short and concise email to Bruce. Taking care not to give him the impression he'd be dragged into a time consuming project, just : slats, you got them, I want some, I'll put them on, more or less.