Back woods fuel
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1SeventyZ wrote:To supplement Mr Scout -- The main problem is that plastic (insulator) simply cannot discharge reliably or predictably, with or without ground wire, like metal (conductor) containers can.
I got that, but wouldn't the fuel be a conductor if there were no air gap? I know they use a "dip tube" when filling big tanker trucks because apparently just fuel falling through the air will generate enough static to become a problem. Or is plastic just simply unsafe, but somehow the product liability lawyers haven't realized how much of a gold mine they have missed here?
Is there no viable answer? Jerry cans aren't viable to me.
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a64pilot offline
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The subject will get plenty of press,as fuel prices continue to climb. The fueling of an aircraft at a airport is not the problem, but in a off airport environment is the big issue.
As the fuel cost of flying keeps going up,the prospect of a cheaper way of doing things wail be thrust to the the front of the pre-flight list,and that will lead to the use of improper ways of fuel transfer that will lead to a big bang.
I cant think of NOT flying, but the cost is going so high that im thinking of takeing up golf. just kidding,but things are going to get very interesting as fiuel gets to 5.00 or more per gal.
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Juan80 offline
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Chuck
Sun Nov 18, 2007 11:15 pm
a64pilot wrote:1SeventyZ wrote:To supplement Mr Scout -- The main problem is that plastic (insulator) simply cannot discharge reliably or predictably, with or without ground wire, like metal (conductor) containers can.
I got that, but wouldn't the fuel be a conductor if there were no air gap? I know they use a "dip tube" when filling big tanker trucks because apparently just fuel falling through the air will generate enough static to become a problem. Or is plastic just simply unsafe, but somehow the product liability lawyers haven't realized how much of a gold mine they have missed here?
Is there no viable answer? Jerry cans aren't viable to me.
No viable answer at this time unless you can convince some folks to put some more R & D time into conductive plastics. They're working on it for the auto industry fuel systems so may happen in a few years. Wonder if these folks could be convinced to do a custom product for this application?
http://www.aircraftrubber.com/military.html
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flynfish offline
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Found this in the Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge. Kind of interesting since the FAA emphatically recommends against plastic in one of the most well known pilot knowledge sources.
FAA-H-8083-25 Sect 5-16 wrote:AIRCRAFT FUEL SYSTEMS - REFUELING PROCEDURES
Static electricity is formed by the friction of air passing over the surfaces of an airplane in flight and by the flow of fuel through the hose and nozzle during refueling.
Nylon, dacron, or wool clothing is especially prone to accumulate and discharge static electricity from the person to the funnel or nozzle. To guard against the possibility of static electricity igniting fuel fumes, a ground wire should be attached to the aircraft before the fuel cap is removed from the tank. The refueling nozzle then should be grounded to the aircraft before refueling is begun, and should remain grounded throughout the refueling process. When a fuel truck is used, it should be grounded prior to the fuel nozzle contacting the aircraft.
If fueling from drums or cans is necessary, proper bonding and grounding connections are important.
Drums should be placed near grounding posts, and the following sequence of connections observed:
1. Drum to ground.
2. Ground to aircraft.
3. Drum to aircraft.
4. Nozzle to aircraft before the fuel cap is removed.
When disconnecting, reverse the order.
The passage of fuel through a chamois increases the charge of static electricity and the danger of sparks. The aircraft must be properly grounded and the nozzle, chamois filter, and funnel bonded to the aircraft. If a can is used, it should be connected to either the grounding post or the funnel. Under no circumstances should a plastic bucket or similar nonconductive container be used in this operation.
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Zzz offline
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Half a century spent proving “it is better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.”
Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:11 am
Dump gas in plane
That's less than 20, right? I pour a couple thousand gallons through jugs every winter, as does most everyone else I know. Including piston helicopter guys, who deal with a LOT of static. Notwithstanding the friend's cousin's brother's friend's dog's very accident prone former owner who seems to show up in all these threads, I've actually met ONE person who's been involved in a fuel accident. It involved pouring gas into a 55 gallon drum, which was on the ground at the time, from a plastic can, which was perched on the drum.
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Dustymc offline
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That guy was MY friend's cousin's brother's friend's dog's owner-- so I believe it!
However, I have seen a couple video's from gas station surveillance camera's that showed some sort of allegedly spontaneous ignition incident, don't know about that part but the fire sure looked real.
Eric
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hotrod180 offline
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Cessna Skywagon -- accept no substitute!
Mon Nov 19, 2007 10:41 pm
Whew, glad I read this before anything happened.
I went back and read all 6 pages from the prvious thread. If I understand things correctly, a guy would be safe so long as the plane was grounded, and the plastic container was wiped down and sitting on the ground during fuel transfer (pump)?
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TwinPOS offline
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if anybody asks, we played poker...
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