I have a newly acquired 185 and am interested in getting the BAS seatbelt/harness system.
It is a landplane but I would like comments on which buckle to get: the standard or utility.

Any comments or thoughts greatly appreciated.

Tom

I've had both styles and prefer the type where the lap and shoulder belts are combined - seems a little more user friendly.

If the airplane may some day be on floats, then the utility. If you're sure that a panick egress isn't likely, then the standard. I'm sure standard is more user friendly. I chose the the utility for underwater egress considerations.

A search will turn up extensive discussions on this topic in the past year, but the above is a good summary.

Rotary buckles were also discussed.

fishdoc wrote:I've had both styles and prefer the type where the lap and shoulder belts are combined - seems a little more user friendly.

From my standpoint I would say the exact opposite. I found nothing more annoying than when they were attached, especially if you have sewn in loops for the seatbelts. Every time you want to take the seat out you had to unbolt them from the floor and pull the bitter end out of the loop. I sold the standards I had bought in my 170 and went with the utility.

Utility are user friendly and easy. When you get out, just stick em to the velcro discs on the fwd carry thru that come in the kit.

Just my .02

Pinecone wrote:If the airplane may some day be on floats, then the utility. If you're sure that a panick egress isn't likely, then the standard. I'm sure standard is more user friendly. I chose the the utility for underwater egress considerations.

A search will turn up extensive discussions on this topic in the past year, but the above is a good summary.

Rotary buckles were also discussed.

I agree. Get the utility. I had them in my Cessna's and have the same type buckle in my Husky, easy to use and they will not impede a quick egress land or water.

I have the utility, user friendly easy to use.
Recommend it.

for my money, the utility. I always plan on a quick egress. Water or not, in the event you need shoulder harnesses it's a good idea to make a quick egress on something that's full of gas or on it's back.

Bill

I'm with Greg on this one. My BAS harnesses in the 180 are the one that have the lap belt attached to each shoulder harness. I don't like them at all, I wish I had the other style. With the shoulder harnesses separate it's easy to put them up and out of the way, either with Velcro or on top of your visors.

I've worked and owned a number of airplane's which were equipped with BAS harness systems. My personal airplane was equipped with the "standard" belts and buckles, i.e.: the shoulder belts were attached to the lap belts. I'd do that again in a heartbeat.

For a number of years, all the work airplane's I flew (5 or 6 different planes) had the BAS "utility" buckles, and I quickly learned to dislike that buckle system. Mind you, these belts are still orders of magnitude better than any other restraint system.

I carried a lot of non pilots, worked airplane's on floats a lot, including a lot of swift river work. I guarantee you at some point, you or a pax will get in a hurry and one of those lap belts will be hanging out a door when you fire up. Even high idle will beat the stink out of paint.

So, after I parked a Cessna 185 on a mountain side, and safely egressed quickly, I might add, I installed a set of BAS harnesses in my 170, but I chose the standard buckle. I put hundreds of hours on floats in that airplane, again with a fair amount of swift River ops, and I loved those buckles.

I have actually had to emergency egress from an airplane. I've been through and helped teach emergency underwater egress training. Even on an airplane that's going to spend a lot of time on floats, I'd install the standard buckle system again. This is not based on theory....it's based on actual experience with both buckle systems.

The argument that these buckles make the seats harder to remove is true.....(you have to remove a couple bolts. ...). Or, you can do what I did and instead of having your retention strap stitched to the seat cover, attach one end with Velcro.

But, in any case, just how often are you removing those seats??

MTV

My own experience is not as extensive as some, but I've flown both, and frankly I can't argue very well for or against either being a better choice over the other. I have the "standard" buckle in my airplane, which I've had in there for 12 1/2 years and some 750 hours. I have had zero difficulty, either myself or with passengers, using it. It's certainly easier for passengers to use, since they don't have to bring 4 straps and buckle connectors together. Granted, I've never turned turtle with my airplane, but I doubt it would cause much difficulty getting out.

When I took my SES training a couple of years ago, the airplane was nearly identical to mine, except with floats. It had the "utility" buckle. The first time I buckled it, it took me a couple of tries to do it easily. From then on, it was no problem.

The only real argument I can make against the "utility" buckle is that it's possible for a person to buckle only the lap belt and not use the shoulder belts, negating the benefits of the shoulder belts. Same is true of the rotary buckle (more on that below). The same is true of Cessna's 3 point belts, and I've certainly seen many passengers disconnect the shoulder belt or express reluctance to use it, before I insisted that they do so ("That's OK. If we crash, it'll be your teeth imbedded in the panel, not mine, so maybe you'd be smart to use it.").

Incidentally, as part of my SES checkride, I noticed that the DPE hadn't put on the shoulder belts as we taxied out. All I said was "better put on your shoulder belts" and he did, so I think it was part of the checkride to see if I'd catch it, since I was seeking a commercial add-on. He never mentioned it in the debriefing.

I do think that the rotary buckle is a total waste of money, besides being non-intuitive for anyone who hasn't used one. First you put on the lap belt, then insert the tabs from the shoulder belts into the buckle. Push the center button in it like a car's seatbelt, and only the shoulder straps come loose. Twist the buckle and they all come loose--and who normally twists any buckle to get loose? In a panic, I can see that being dangerous. I'd definitely recommend staying away from the rotary.

Otherwise, I think either one that you choose, "standard" or "utility", will satisfy you. They're quality, made for BAS by AmSafe, and they do their job well. The only complaint might be that the inertia reel will occasionally lock up in turbulence, which can prevent reaching for something, but that's only annoyed me maybe 2 or 3 times in all this time I've used them. Otherwise you'll hardly notice that you have them on, yet as Mike (MTV) has attested in his article on the issue, they're a real life saver when you need them.

Cary

Bigrenna wrote:

fishdoc wrote:I've had both styles and prefer the type where the lap and shoulder belts are combined - seems a little more user friendly.

From my standpoint I would say the exact opposite. I found nothing more annoying than when they were attached, especially if you have sewn in loops for the seatbelts. Every time you want to take the seat out you had to unbolt them from the floor and pull the bitter end out of the loop. I sold the standards I had bought in my 170 and went with the utility.

Utility are user friendly and easy. When you get out, just stick em to the velcro discs on the fwd carry thru that come in the kit.

Just my .02

Count me in Greg's camp on this one.

-DP

denalipilot wrote:

Bigrenna wrote:

fishdoc wrote:I've had both styles and prefer the type where the lap and shoulder belts are combined - seems a little more user friendly.

From my standpoint I would say the exact opposite. I found nothing more annoying than when they were attached, especially if you have sewn in loops for the seatbelts. Every time you want to take the seat out you had to unbolt them from the floor and pull the bitter end out of the loop. I sold the standards I had bought in my 170 and went with the utility.

Utility are user friendly and easy. When you get out, just stick em to the velcro discs on the fwd carry thru that come in the kit.

Just my .02

Count me in Greg's camp on this one.

-DP

The guy that built my plane put utility buckles in it. He zip tied the shoulder straps to the male end on the left seat. Now I have three belts that are connected with a very easy to break/cut zip tie. I haven't removed the zip tie because it makes the belts easier to manage. The minute I think it's annoying, I'll cut the zip tie and have 4 free belts again. I've flown ~160 hours with them tied.

If you were on the fence about separated vs. connected belts, this might be a good compromise. YMMV.

Wow,

Thank you all for the replies.

I have used the Utility version in a friends 185 on anfibs and found it easy to use but am used to shoulder harnesses after 40 years in the airline business. I do like the idea of being able to zip tie the shoulder harness to the lap belt giving one the option.

Thank you all and I thing I will go with the utility version.

Tom

CamTom12:

I'm having a bit of trouble visualizing exactly what was zip tied to what. Suppose you could post a pic? Or send me a PM? Thanks
John

PapernScissors wrote:CamTom12:

I'm having a bit of trouble visualizing exactly what was zip tied to what. Suppose you could post a pic? Or send me a PM? Thanks
John

John,

I should be out to the hangar later this week, I'll get a picture for you.

Cameron

I have both in the Bonanza. Standard buckle on pilot side because I hate the utility buckle. Utility buckle on copilot side because it's easy to keep straps out of the way when not in use.

I recently put a set in my 182. After a good bit of research and talking to people I decided to go with the utility as the individual belts can be replaced if one is damaged. If you damage one part of the standard buckle you would either half to send the lap belt/shoulder belt out for repair or buy the whole side. Probably not a huge deal but helped with my reasoning. Either way I love the harnesses and they are easy to install (on a 182 with the headliner removed anyways)

chedrick wrote:I recently put a set in my 182. After a good bit of research and talking to people I decided to go with the utility as the individual belts can be replaced if one is damaged. If you damage one part of the standard buckle you would either half to send the lap belt/shoulder belt out for repair or buy the whole side. Probably not a huge deal but helped with my reasoning. Either way I love the harnesses and they are easy to install (on a 182 with the headliner removed anyways)

Good point.

Tom,

Bottom line is that whichever model of BAS harness system you install in your airplane, you won't go wrong.....they all provide a significant additional degree of safety and convenience.

MTV

The plane has very nice dual shoulder harnesses in it now. They are not the inertia type but fixed adjustable. That is fine for the pax's but a pain for the pilot with the flap handle.
I called BAS yesterday and came up with a good compromise. I can buy just one setup. They are sending samples of the grey shades so as to match the other belts. The cost is slightly more than half the cost for 2 sets.

T