Got this in an email...maybe some of you can help.

The IAA is looking for the names of any pilots who may have been using the Big Creek 4 airstrips (Vines, Dewey Moore, Mile Hi, Simonds), Falconberry, or other backcountry airstrips prior to 1980. We're gathering information for our historical records, and in case we may need the information in the future. Some of these pilots may be deceased but we still might be able to contact their family members for the information and flight records. Please send the names and contact information of those possibly having information to [email protected] or call IAA Secretary Nadine Burak at 208-861-9056.

Thanks for Your Help!

So did anybody have any input on this, or is it too far in the past? I have relatives that were flying into the Frank long before 1980, but they're all dead, and any tangible records have been long lost. I dug, and no flight books or records are known at this time.

If anyone can rummage up some proof of historical usage, that would be great. It's one thing to say an access is historical, and it's quite another to prove it. We need factual accounts, not hearsay...which is apparently all we have at this point.

Try contacting the author of Bound for the Backcountry, Richard Holm. I would be surprised if he didn’t know someone that could help out.

There is a guy in Idaho Falls named Bob Jones that used to fly charters into central ID. I don't know if he ever flew into the Big 4, would be surprised if he didn't, but I know he flew charters into Falconberry. Next time I see him I'll ask.

If anyone knows of a potential source, please forward them the link to the IAA, or just alert the Source to the issue and then contact the IAA and have them contact the Source.

This isn't about somebody's merit badge...it's about documenting historical usage so the airstrips don't get closed. The IAA wouldn't be asking for it if they didn't feel it was needed.

Frankly I think the Big 4 are essentially doomed: too little use for Backcountry Trailhead access, too much use as an aerial skatepark.

When we loose the Big 4 airstrips we can all thank the pilots of the various Johnson Creek Fly-In's: Twenty airplanes in a small drainage doing nothing but landing and taking off so they can say they went there... Legal, yes. Defendable in the context of airstrips grandfathered into the Wilderness Act...No, not at all.

If we don't loose the Big 4 it will be because there are pilots who can document using them as something other than log-book entries: Access for hunters, fishermen, backpackers, botanists, geologists, environmentalists, ecologists, sociologists...freaking cannibals for Christ's sake...just prove there's a use for them other than for pilots who want to wag their dicks on the internet.

Very few of the folks who visit Big Creek are pilots, or passengers in an airplane. Their interpretation of the how pilots utilize the drainage is as valid as anyone's, and more valid than most. And frankly, the way pilots have been using the drainage is, by in large, not in line with the intended use...as backcountry trailheads.

There's two things we as backcountry pilots can do: prove historical usage, and only use the airstrips in the manner in which they were intended: If you land there, stay there 10 or 20 or 80 hours. If you can't do that, don't land.

I am sure that someone has reached out to Ray Arnold on this, but if anyone is in the Cascade neighborhood he might be a great source.

Sorry I can't help you with a list of people who have used these strips 3 decades ago, if I knew some I'd love to help ya out.

The subject of acceptable modern day big creek 4 usage has been beet up enough. However, if the IIA or anyone else wants a record of usage we shouldn't need to go back 37 years to prove it. These strips where in use long before the popularity of Johnson creek fly-ins exploded or hordes of "dick waggling " carbon cub drivers supposedly ruined the ambiance for non aviation users in the drainage.

Air taxis have dropped off hunters and fishermen without a 20 hour layover at these places for years and I don't think that is a violation of the strips intended purpose. In that case the air taxi companies should have plenty of records to prove valid sustained use.

As for strip bagging the big4, I have to disagree with what I believe to be your assessment of their current status. Anyone that I know of that has been caught at these places when the forest service was present have been threatened with a fine or actually issued one. I for one would love to spend some time fishing for a morning, or camping out over a weekend, but I won't be spending any time at these strips until the powers that be agree that they are open to use. Even then I might run afoul of the fun police when I choose to make multiple approaches into Vines or Dewey Moore to safety shuttle in a full load of gear from cabin creek.

I'm not trying to create a sh*tstorm here but if Johnson creek, big creek, and Indian creek are arbitrarily not "backcountry trailheads" but vines and Dewey Moore are and as such should not be used in a similar manner, then perhaps some kind of change needs to be made so that the big 4 stay open to those with "legitimate" backcountry access intent. Register before you go? A simple permit? First come first serve registration for a given day? Limited number of no date/time restriction permits in a year?

There's got to be a better way to keep these places open than to die fighting amongst ourselves arguing over what is proper use. Seems like too many people forget that "this land is your land, this land is my land."

Mike Dorris at McCall would know about his dad, Bill.

This might be worth tracking down.
I found the following comment made on a "Landing Simonds" Video.

It was posted by Bev Larkin:
I was among the first to fly into Si's along with my family. My folks, Hilda and Swede Hanson, had a cabin there also. George Dovel was our pilot and it was the first time we had flowen in a small plane. My family also helped with the building of the strip and came in by way of horse back at the time. Many years later I found that Jim Larkin, my husband then, had never landed there as he was not impressed with the strip. Have many wonderful memories of the Idaho back country. Enjoyed the video landing, Thanks.

Hammer wrote:....Very few of the folks who visit Big Creek are pilots, or passengers in an airplane. Their interpretation of the how pilots utilize the drainage is as valid as anyone's, and more valid than most. And frankly, the way pilots have been using the drainage is, by in large, not in line with the intended use...as backcountry trailheads. There's two things we as backcountry pilots can do: prove historical usage, and only use the airstrips in the manner in which they were intended: If you land there, stay there 10 or 20 or 80 hours. If you can't do that, don't land.

It's my understanding that part of the reason airplane access via these backcountry strips has been allowed for is so that folks who aren't up to a long hike can still get out there and enjoy the wilderness. There's no time line requirements when you hike or boat in-- there shouldn't be one if you fly in either.

I used to fly with Bill Dorris and his son Mike, plus Ray Arnold and the other AA pilots when I worked back there, both before and after the wilderness designation. There should be no shortage of leads from them.