Ok, so for a long time now Ive been looking at where I want to go next with aircraft. Thanks kindly to a builder liquidating and taking all my saved aeroplane money and more a few years back, my funds are very limited.

I have been looking into the savage agilis. Its no secret I love open cockpit life, and I live in a country so perfect for it. Plus that aircraft ticks all of my boxes. But at 45 000 euros plus impotart fees to get a wing with a few bits of steel with a 582 on the front seems a bit extreme to me.

has anyone got any ideas as to other alternatives of a bare bone basic bush plane that would suite a tight budget?

My alternative is Im looking at is doing a ground up rebuild of a customised...you guesed it...drifter! They actually are a fantastic bush plane. There tough as nails, excellent stol and great range. Only problem is the pusher prop but for what you get for the money im happy to see past that!

If I did got that direction however i would be wanting to go a 4 stroke engine. Now an 80 hp 912 over here will set me back $20 000 which is pretty steep for a small engine though I am a huge fan. But can anyone reccomened another engine worth looking into for a drifter another project should I decide to go will and do a scratch build design? Please dont say a jabiru however, I know there australian but there track record is simply appalling and there are huge restrictions over here on aircraft operating them.

If you're interested in the Savage, you could take a look at the Airbike and use that as a basis for your build. Plans are still available for the single seat and tandem

Ill look into it, are they reasonably tough?

I was also looking into the ridge runner but ive hesmard horror storys about the company, what are peoples thoughts there?

How tight is the budget?

Cost, risk, and performance seem closely linked in aviation.
Sure you can have it cheaper, but it will effect the other two accordingly.

You hit the nail on tbe head there battson! And thats my concern, eventually I plan on going to a super stol as they are suprisingly afforadable, but while im young and trying to sort out property ect I dont want to burn to much of what will eventually be my future super stol funds on a stop gap aircraft now, hence the modified drifter option as i see myself always owning a drifter anyway despite what else ive got.

Im probably looking at up to 40 000 au as i said, this less i spend now the sooner i will get my long term aircraft

Give these guys a shout to see what they recommend as far as used 912's go then add the kit.

http://zipperbigbore.com

Have you looked at the Skyreach BushCat? There are two new ones in NZ I would like to go look at. They advertise as turn key for $65k US so maybe if you did a kit it would be close to your budget. South Africa outfit, 912, 600lb useful, supposedly over 130 flying but I sure can't find much info.

Jeff

Thats awsome blackrock! I noticed swingles plane on there, ill email him and see what he thinks of the kit

rans s7 - a lot of plane for the money

Your welcome DD. Ask Courierguy also to see what he thinks. He has quite a few post on here regarding the extra performance he gained.

DD: The cool thing about the 912 is that it can easily be flown so that your operational costs are lower then with a 2 stroke. That's just in fuel, throw in the 2 stroke oil and it gets even better. You do need to forget about the initial purchase price though!

An old ultralight pilot here...... the other thing I appreciate is the real aircraft fabric, with all the UV protection of course as part of the process, as opposed to dacron sail cloth. Super easy to patch also.

If we ever flew together, the first thing I'd do is say "let's do some slow flying", and I am real comfortable in saying, I'd win that. For sure I can go faster, and if I take the doors off (30 seconds per door), I have a close enough to ultralight flying experience as I want. But I also have a easy 8 hour duration at 85 mph, so can really get somewhere when needed. Another huge factor is, somewhere down the road, re sale value, much better with a more or less "real" airplane (no disrespect meant, I know the Drifter kicks butt). My own track record over the last 30 years is breaking even when I sell a homebuilt, after enough flying time to equal or exceed the time originally spent building. Back when I was flying ultralights, I lost money every time.

Hey, IF we both make it to Kevin's fly-in (your odds probably greater then mine) expect some airtime in my bird, I'll make sure to throw in the passenger seat when I pack

We're all looking for 1000 fpm climb & 150 mph cruise with 800# payload on 5 gph, oh yeah purchase price under $30K please, but that airplane hasn't been invented yet.

Meanwhile, I don't know what's available in Aussieland in the way of factory aircraft, but lots of people here in the US have tweaked old Taylorcrafts & Champs (bigger engines, fat tires, etc) and they seem to have a lot of fun with them without spending too much money. Plus you can buy them in flying condition and modify them as time & funds allow.

soyAnarchisto wrote:rans s7 - a lot of plane for the money

I'll second that.

DrifterDriver asked:

Now an 80 hp 912 over here will set me back $20 000 which is pretty steep for a small engine though I am a huge fan. But can anyone reccomened another engine worth looking into for a drifter another project should I decide to go will and do a scratch build design?

No. If you do hear of one though let me know. I've been waiting 20 years for that affordable (for me) alternative to the 912 to come along. Still flying the 503 in the meantime.

Yes, it most certainly can be done. What Hotrod 180 said about Taylorcrafts and Champs is true. I did it with unmodified 65 hp Taylorcrafts and Champs. I never spent more than $15,000 on an airplane at a time when inflation was around 7%. And as Hammer said, "It will be the best thing you do."

I quote Hammer, "I’ve never wanted to fly anywhere but in the backcountry. I live at high density altitude and have to cross the Sierra Nevada Mountains to get anywhere worth going, so naturally my first airplane was a… Cessna 140? This was not my first choice for a two-person backcountry airplane, but finances and circumstances conspired to make it the best choice I had at the time. I didn’t know it then, but starting off in an underpowered, short-legged airplane was the absolute BEST thing I could have ever done.

Underpowered airplanes teach you what the air is doing. You can’t just pull back on the yoke or add more throttle… hell, a lot of the time you can’t even turn on course until you figure out where the air is rising so you can gain some altitude. You have to use the air, and to use it you have to understand it. Getting that education in the relatively open spaces of the front-country is a very good idea. Taking off and discovering that you can only climb 100 feet without orographic lift is best done with some maneuvering space."

You ever talk to these guys in Taree?

http://www.aircraftkits.com.au/

I think Hornet STOL is a cool looking aircraft. Maybe start building one from a kit? They offer a tandem and side-by-side model. They seem very similar to Zenith construction, which is one of the simpler construction designs in the kit world, using pulled rivets, though I imagine that is entirely up to the builder's preference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEjipql-UGw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGlKreHNaeE

I know a friend who found a run out 912 for $4,000 USD and rebuilt it. I'm not sure how much his overhaul parts cost was.

No offense to the Taylorcraft or Champ fans, but I think after flying a 582 powered Drifter, the takeoff performance would be underwhelming. You'd gain some speed and an enclosed cockpit and a poorer power-to-weight ratio. That might make sense if you can fit a bigger engine into one.

an S7 being my preferred option over here by the time I have it built it will still cost me close to $80 000. Oly's hornet cub is much the same. the full hornet will be around $100 000

The champ option is 100 percent the direction Im looking toward as my primary. we come around again though to the fact there are very few over here, and the import costs from the US are a killer. I have for some time now been looking into the freight options. but not making progress. the trick for the import of a taylorcraft/champ will be to purchase one thats a project. probably even less engine and that will avoid a number of taxes.

though I do keep coming back to a custom drifter. there strong as an ox, The take off performance is very hard to match (my certified Austflight, which is substantially heavier than the max air, and only runs a 503 is off the ground and in a climb in about 300 feet with full fuel) however we do keep coming back to the pusher prop issue.

Im looking very seriously at these Bush Cat aircraft aswell as another manufacturer from south africa http://www.saplanes.co.za/ has anyone had any dealings or know anything about these guys or there aircraft?

in relation to Rotax alternatives, I'm looking at http://www.ulpower.com/ engines and Rotec engines http://www.rotecradialengines.com/

The UL prices are right up with the Rotax 912. http://www.ulpower.net/prices-us.html

DrifterDriver wrote:an S7 being my preferred option over here by the time I have it built it will still cost me close to $80 000. Oly's hornet cub is much the same. the full hornet will be around $100 000

The champ option is 100 percent the direction Im looking toward as my primary. we come around again though to the fact there are very few over here, and the import costs from the US are a killer. I have for some time now been looking into the freight options. but not making progress. the trick for the import of a taylorcraft/champ will be to purchase one thats a project. probably even less engine and that will avoid a number of taxes.

though I do keep coming back to a custom drifter. there strong as an ox, The take off performance is very hard to match (my certified Austflight, which is substantially heavier than the max air, and only runs a 503 is off the ground and in a climb in about 300 feet with full fuel) however we do keep coming back to the pusher prop issue.

Im looking very seriously at these Bush Cat aircraft aswell as another manufacturer from south africa http://www.saplanes.co.za/ has anyone had any dealings or know anything about these guys or there aircraft?

in relation to Rotax alternatives, I'm looking at http://www.ulpower.com/ engines and Rotec engines http://www.rotecradialengines.com/

Don't forget to consider the costs of ownership too. How long do you intent to run with this "interim solution"?

Some aircraft might cost more to buy, which means more waiting and saving. They might be cheaper to use though, if you can avoid CASA participation (microlight class 2?)
Others might be cheap to buy, but cost an arm + leg to run, and maintain if you are included in the full-blown CASA rigmoral.

What about a Piper Colt / (Tri-)Pacer?