A 207 is basically a stretched 206 right??? So how much performance is lost because of the additional weight? Could a 207 haul a couple kayakers and their gear out of Lower Loon, only asking if the performance is there not if the gear would actually fit inside?

I've never looked at a 206 but I have loaded a 207 for a freight run and was lucky enough to get to fly it for an hour after we dropped the load. With the seats removed you could live in the thing.

I've mentioned before that someday I'd like to own a plane that I could use to haul kayaks and such to stretches of river that are most easily accessed by plane. With a 206 it would take two trips because of the size of the boats. Of course this is just a pipe dream and will never happen but...

Might look into Redtail aviation in Moab. I think they have several 207's and haul lots of rafters, I don't know much about kayaks size etc. though.

Just get a 206 and strap them to the strut..they would look like big drop tanks

whee wrote:A 207 is basically a stretched 206 right???

No, it's a completely different airplane. Same engine, and share some common looking parts, but not the same.

I got a bit over 10K hours in them, and love the airplane, but 9,999+ of those hours are at sea level in cool to cold air. Above about 3,000 feet they run out of steam in a big hurry, and I think service ceiling on them is maybe 13,000 feet. Now a TURBO 207, is a different beast, and I'm betting the skydive guys here can give you all kinds of good info about running at higher density altitudes.

All in all... Tough, roomy, very wide gear with lots of options for tire/wheel sizes, and one of the best crosswind airplanes out there. They're getting long of tooth however. I've flown some with 30K hours on the airframe. And parts are getting pricey.

Gump

Whee,

Take a look at PakBoats: http://www.pakboats.com/

I'm not a white water kinda guy, but I know some who are, and who've used these in some serious whitewater. They fold up quite compactly, and fit in airplanes nicely.

I have one of the 14.5 foot boats and they are surprisingly durable and very stable. A friend has used his on the Upper Gulkana, and most of the rivers in the Brooks Range. He backpacks the boat in, then does major float trips.

MTV

Strapped a kayak to the bottom of the Luscombe with my raft frame tied to the struts and the raft in the pax seat...it was quite a hand full

When someone mentions pricey parts I get scared...parts are pricey enough. I figured it would have to be a turbo 207 if I were to do much hauling with it around here.

MTV, I've looked at those boats before and I think they are kinda neat but they would never work on the stretches of river I have in mind.

Gump, you have mentioned that your loads were quite heavy when you were flying 207s; I also think you mentioned you've been into lower loon a time or two. When I'm geared up for a self-support kayak trip my total weight is ~300lb. with 600 lbs + pilot and fuel would LL be doable??

I keep asking about Lower Loon because it is the most difficult strip I think I would be trying to haul boats out of. Vines might be a drop off point but wouldn't be a pickup point because there is some good whitewater below there.

A C207 is a hell of a load hauler, and is big enough inside to pack a lot of volume for bulky stuff, and holds it's own in rough field work. But it is NOT a short field airplane. It's heavier than a C206, and the wing does not fly as slow. You can zip in and out of some tight spots in the 206 not even thinking about it, where you'd be sitting up straight and sweating big time in the 207.

But, like I said, my experience with them is in the Arctic, not in the mountains on a warm summer day, and I've never flown a turbo'd version.

Gump

Hey Gump when you say "the 207 is heavier" do you mean empty weight? or heavier on the controls? I was always under the impression the 206 and 207 both maxed out at 3600lbs....I've been able to fly them both (more in the 206) but the 207 can be a handful loaded for sure....doesn't like to leave the ground as "nicely" as the 206....Maybe a 207 with a 550 would be cool?! I was able to fly a nicely modified 206 and with a full load that thing still kicked some be-hind....happy flying guys!

Gross weight on the C207 is 3,800 lbs, and it's a different wing than the C206. At gross weights you're using about 10-15 kts more airspeed to keep things comfortable.

Gump

I should have said my 207 experience is quite limited haha...thanks for the info!

Whee,

Check out the Upper Gulkana. It's Class V at some times of the year, and some say mean Class V. The guy I mentioned is the kayak/canoe guru at Beaver Sports in FAI, and he is a SERIOUS whitewater guy. There's no way I'd do some of hte rapids he does for fun, but he does some serious stuff in these boats. He says the key is to inflate/deflate the side stiffeners to make the boat more or less flexible. More flexible in really big stuff, and less flexible for cruising.

Again, I'm not a white water type AT ALL, but this guy is. And, he's been through some really significant water with these boats.

As to the Cessna 207, there's a good reason many of the pilots who fly them refer to them as "The Sled". Great airplane, but as Gump says, it's not a short field airplane.

MTV

I bought a Pakboat canoe based on earlier advice from MTV and the guru guy he mentions above and have not regretted it for one second. I am a whitewater guy from way back and I wouldn't hesitate taking it on class iv or even v whitewater so long as the rocks aren't too sharp but you can always patch it like a raft too. And I'm talking about the open canoe here. A bit slower on flatwater than a traditional canoe but not enough to matter.

could use to haul kayaks

I am pretty sure the FAA frowns on external loads in the lower 48.

Here is a good source for quality folding kayaks http://feathercraft.com/. Their concentration is on sea kayaks but I think the K-Lite would do pretty good in a river.

I know a Feathercraft double will fit in a Maule (on floats) with enough gear for a week for two.

Tom

i dont think i would stuff one into lower loon, and then hope it comes out. no doubt would with either gump or ray arnold at the controls, but not this part-timer...!

Unfortunately Ray won't be flying for about three months. He had his knees replaced and when he was in the hospital they found he had some blockage in his arteries. Had three bypasses done at once . Back home now though.

d

once&futr_alaskaflyer wrote: And I'm talking about the open canoe here.

Thats where we differ...you got mad skills and I don't. Them guys that OC-1 are just plain good.

MTV, I tried to look up the Upper Gulkana and couldn't find anything that was over class 3. there were two sections I found and the upper one was Summit Lake to Paxson Lake. Quite often the local boys keep the good stuff quite or at least de-rate it so people aren't attracted to it; which may be the case for the section you speak.

Here is a photo of a section I have yet to run but it shows why a pakboat may not be the right equipment.

Besides I'm just looking for an excuse to need a bigger plane Looks like a 207 is not the plane for me...back to the drawing board.

A smokejumper friend of mine had the air taxi at McCall haul his kayak into Lower Loon in a 206. They had to stuff it on into the tailcone to make it fit inside.

I dont remember if you could put the Sportsman STOL on the 207 or not. Wing-X or Flint tip tanks for extra lift, big tires, Fun, Fun. If you were going to just haul 3 guys and small plastic boats inside I think it would be a great option. I passed up a chance to own one cheap, so every now and then one is out there. Now a non turbo, stock wing, 207 loaded with meat, will not get out of its own way. IMHO.

I actually went and looked it up, and the 206 and 207 do share the same wing.

I had one Sled with the Sportsman STOL and extended fuel, and it was by far the nicest one I'd ever been in. Of course it was personally owned by the owner of Flight International, and had Capstone and every other bell and whistle available at the time in it. I put about 2,000 very comfortable hours on that airplane, and wish I had it now.

At sea level, it's amazing what the 207 will get off the ground. Every day norm was 1,100 pound loads with full fuel, me at 200+, and the dog at 50. And there were the occasional math slip ups, where as soon I started rolling down the runway, the amount of right rudder and acceleration (or lack thereof) told me I was way heavy. But she'd lumber into the air and behave nicely, and when I'd land and add up mail weights I'd discover that my actual cargo weight at 1,500 or so.

The caveat being, sea level and cool air.

And the term Sled, by the way, comes from the C207 being called the direct replacement for the dog sled. One full load in a Sled fills the average dog sled, and visa versa.

Gump