Terry wrote:Shit, I can't describe how much I've learned and put into practice from reading from BCP!

bigrenna wrote:Besides... its just the f-ing web.

You are very good at throwing money at your plane (it's bad ass, and I like it!) but it's just not the fucking web for those of us that are here to learn.
Looking for some pics of that beast off the asphalt?

Holy Cats!! Greg has flown that beautiful airplane 75 hours since he completed this phase of the rebuild! That's what? A month?

I don't know many pilots other than full time commercial pilots who fly that much.

He's too damn busy fying that thing to play "Post a Pic".

Leave him alone! He's keeping the avgas industry alive!

MTV

Hi all,
I've enjoyed this thread on VG's on the shyhawk. I have a 1969 172K that I had the Sportsman's kit installed on. I've read many reviews on VG's on Cessna wings, and the general opinion has been to save the money. However, all of these reviews have been in regards to their effect on the wing itself. A question I have had for a while now is what is their effect on the elevator at slow speeds. Lightly loaded, my plane feels really nice and stable at 50 MPH on final with 40 degrees flaps, and a steep power off approach. When it comes to the flare though, it takes a slight blast from the prop to soften the blow because the elevator is pretty mushy at that speed. The Micro VG kit for the Skyhawk comes with VG's for the bottom of the elevator. Has anyone noticed any increase in elevator effectiveness after their installation? I'm perfectly happy improving my flare with the throttle, but what if the throttle wasn't there for some reason someday?

Installed micro VG's on the bottom side of my horizontal stabilizer. Much better! I'd like to install on the vertical stabilizer... But there're isn't an STC for the PA20. A friend on mine runs an air taxi service out of Dillingham Ak.. Horton STOL on his 207. When light He could get air borne before having good rudder authority. Cross wind take off...houses close to the runway (old)....... Installed VG's on the vertical stabilizer. Hasn't come close to a house since. We have relocated the runway....so real it's difficult now to get blown into a house....
Mark M.

Problem is, it's not in compliance with the STC to install the VGs on just the tail. Not that anyone is likely to notice, but take that in to a A/P for annual, and you're asking him to sign off an airplane that isn't "airworthy".

And, the 172 VG kits include VGs for the vertical fin.

But, it sounds to me as if you have a CG problem, not a VG problem. Do a weight and balance as you're flying it, and I'll bet you find its pretty far forward.

MTV

mtv wrote:Problem is, it's not in compliance with the STC to install the VGs on just the tail. Not that anyone is likely to notice, but take that in to a A/P for annual, and you're asking him to sign off an airplane that isn't "airworthy".

And, the 172 VG kits include VGs for the vertical fin.

But, it sounds to me as if you have a CG problem, not a VG problem. Do a weight and balance as you're flying it, and I'll bet you find its pretty far forward.

MTV

I installed the wing VG's...first.
Mark M.

I Love myVG's
I have a 1975 172M with the factory cuff and it had the stall fences, aileron gap seals and flap gap seals installed when I bought it. I was looking to get better rudder and elevator control at slow speed. I asked the Micro VG people if I could install only the tail portion of the kit and they said NO. I installed the whole kit and found a huge difference in control authority at low speed with no reduction in cruise speeds. I could really feel a difference in the amount of air over the controls at low speed and high angle of attack. Did it lower my landing speed, not really because I could already tip it back far enough and slow enough to get a tail strike on landing so I could not get much more out of that unless I put taller main gear on the plane so I could tip it back farther. Did I get the low speed control I was looking for, YOU BET many times over.
KenW
ps: I am using my 172 as a test bed for my 175 project to find out what works and what doesn't

What kit was already installed that included the fences and gap seals? Those are not standard 172 equipment.

Sure you don't have a Bush or AvCon Kit installed?

MTV

The Micro VG kit for my C150TD included VG's for the top of the wing, and the sides of the vertical stab. Nothing for the bottom of the horizontal stab. One 150 driver had told me that his VG's improved the low-speed control responsiveness so much that he had to learn to fly the airplane all over again. Of course, another just told me "VG's rock!" but couldn't elaborate on that. Despite my misgivings, I went ahead and bought them. Like I said earlier, they may have improved things but it was very subtle. Micro says 5% reduction in stall speed. Well, it stalled at just a whisker over 40 before so just under 40 (2 mph difference) would be that 5%. Like I said, subtle. Aileron and rudder effectiveness didn't seem much if any different to me, but then again I'm kind of ham-handed so maybe it was there & I just couldn't detect it.
What did seem to make a slight bit of improvement was using some clear packing tape or silver foil tape to seal the gap between wing and aileron. Didn't cost hundreds of dollars either.