My C180B is apart for annual, and I am considering replacing the trim, elevator and aileron cables, as there is no record of them having been replaced in the past 58 years.

Has anyone here done this? It appears to be impossible from the rear fuselage access hole, as I can only get one arm in there and no eyes on the area to do the work. On the other hand, it appears to be difficult to get far enough aft from inside the fuselage, but I'm guessing that's how it is done. Input, please!

The other thing I noticed was what appears to be a non-standard turnbuckle spiral wrap. Safety-wire pliers were used rather than the usual 4 wraps per wire end called out and described in AC-43-13-1b Acceptable Methods for single/ double wrap turnbuckle safetying. See foto below. Has anyone seen this variation before? It looks like it does the job, but might not be smiled upon.

Crawl down the tail, get as comfortable position as possible, relax. It will take a while. The wrap around method on the turnbuckle is safest and can come in handy. Way back in crop dusting school I found a broken turnbuckle on a Fledgling aileron. Just the brass barrel was broken but the wrapped safety wire was holding it tight enough that the threads were still holding. Yes the safety wire might still work the control with his figure eight, but the wrapped method is safest.

I was afraid of the long crawl aft! I was thinking of laying a few carpeted 1 x 4's resting on the bulkheads on each side of the cables to avoid banging/denting the skin. Necessary? (I'm not the svelte 160 lbs I was in High School)

Thanks, Ron

Been down that tunnel a few times:
1- Put the tail up on a barrel or other sturdy item to make the belly at least flat
IF NOT slightly uphill to the rear. Crawling out uphill in reverse SUCKS at least after the age of 60.

2- Best option is to get a good sized hunk of 4" to 6" thick foam.
Cut the foam in strips about a foot wide and long enough to fit between bulkheads.
Much easier to handle in have two narrower pices - one one each side of center line of inside bottom skin. BOARDS are HARD on old knees and elbows - also can cause you to slip a bit. When it comes time to back out - take yer time and be glad you are NOT climbing backwards and UPHILL at the same time. One time was ALL the lesson I needed. Now if you are into S&M.... Religious self punishment etc....

3- Don't do it outside in the sun.

4- Go in slow empty handed the first time - some are not aware that they are claustraphobic (sp) and an onset of same can cause havoc with yer head.
There is no speed that is fast enough when claustrophobia squeezes yer mind to the size of a walnut and shuts down all rational thought processes.

Note: The foam may seem to slow ya down - but you will not be slipping - banging and denting much. Also used bits of 3/8" 1/2" ensolite foam against each side where actual work was being done to cover tool "slips" and burst of anger and outrage. Having a fan blow from front to back helps, amazing how fast you can exhale enough carbon dioxide to schmuk with yer brain in an itty bitty hole.
Your body has it's own eons old defense REACTION to excess carbon dioxide.

A small clip light and head lamp together make a good team.

That's as much as I can remember for now.
You can either practice all yer bad words or learn to meditate yer frustrations away.

Take Care
Be Safe

Chris C
Wannabe at it again soon.

EDIT The boards ON the bulkheads reduces a bit of you vertical head room
your size may be different!

JRC

Reads like a good time to replace pulleys.

Chris c

I'll have to see if Michael's or Hobby Lobby has some foam. The fan sounds like a good idea, too! Yes, I'm replacing pulleys/bolts while I'm at it and I have rebuilt the flap and aileron bellcranks, too. I'm in the middle of the ailerons/flap cables now and one thing I discovered is you don't want to lose any bushings - Cessna wants an arm and a leg for them. Easily makeable out of 4130 steel tubing, nonetheless Cessna wants $284 and $452 for PN's 0510137 and 0510136, respectively, for example.

When I stripped the inside of the tail cone and replaced cables and pulleys I built a scoffold of sorts. Laid foam and 2x4's and then shaped plywood. I also used a bathroom fan blowing through ducting into the tail since I was using MEK and, even with a respirator on, it was too much. By the end of day one I was calling it the hell hole. Another option is to befriend a small A&P. Good luck!

If you're working alone take a phone with ya so you can call someone when you wiggle into a spot you can't get out of.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Use an LED shop light. Headlamps are great but can cause you to inadvertently strain your neck for long periods if time. Other shop lights turn the tail section into an oven...

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Ive got an old fashoned clamp on light fixture which i fitted with one of those new fangled curly cue light bulbs, which I got free from the PUD. 60w equivalent. Lights up the work area but does so without making it too hot to work. Perfect.

I'm small so I can zip in and out of the tail. Comes in handy for these jobs. But some old seat cushions or foam makes a big difference on the knees and elbows.
On the safety wiring, we do a different method yet. It's all done with a twister plier. Basically the only way you are taught over seas. Transport Canada has approved the method as well. I'll try to get a picture for you. But the one that is on there looks like it should do the job just fine.

David

Safetying turnbuckles is a PITA to do right.
My old C170 had some turnbuckles which used a safety clip which were a lot less hassle.
Sorta like this one:

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/a ... ocking.php

FWIW this Spruce catalog page has a couple diagrams on safetying TB's:

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/pdf/2017 ... t17148.pdf

Ran into a little snag (literally) running the aileron cables. I used safety wire to pull the new cables through and they ended up as shown for the left and right wings, respectively, as shown below, looking from outboard to inboard at the wing root as the cables pass into the cabin:

Left:



Right:



The 62-68 service manual shows the routing of the cables below, with new spacers, but says the routing is the same. Can anyone confirm that prior to 66 the carry thru cable is aft of the pulley housing? If that's so, apparently the safety wire pulled to the front and that's why I can't get the cables drag free. Help!

Pretty sure the carry through should sit aft of the pulley housing in that notch. Not sure how your safety wire could have pulled forward through the housing though...

Sent from my SM-G870W using Tapatalk

There's a small gap over the top of the cable guards that a .032" wire could slip through with bad luck and the proper application of a force.

Oh ya, shucks. I usually use a string, and it doesn't fit through that gap...

Sent from my SM-G870W using Tapatalk

I have the early (1953-62) parts catalog in a file, if it would help I can send it to you.
Just PM me your email address.
I also have an early series 100 service manual at the hangar, if I remember I'll check it out.

Thanks, but I've got the pre-1963 service manual, which is sparse on the above mentioned details, as in no information at all. I've found the later manuals occasionally have a nugget of information that the earlier ones didn't, subject to verification, of course.

Thanks for the advice given above; it was spot-on! I found 24" x 36" x 3" closed foam pads at Wally world, and split them longitudinally with an oscillating knife. As mentioned above, I raised the tail so that it was a slight uphill climb and put a 20" fan in the cabin area blowing into the tail as it did tend to get warm in there.



I ended up replacing all the cables and pulleys and mounting hardware for same with the exception of the trim cable/chain and rudder cable's, which will be undertaken when I go through the stabilizor trim mechanism. Overall, it took about 80-90 hours, including replacing the flap tunnel carpet with a Selkirk cover in order to gain access.

Removing ratty carpet:



Primed tunnel, painted flap handle after removal, cleaning, inspection, greasing and painting, masked to protect paint when putting cover (aileron leveling board also shown):



Final cover:



I found two cables with a single strand frayed and a few with wear. Several pulleys showed wear. The flap clevis bolts were rusty and grooved and probably the worst of the bunch. Not too bad for about 60 years.

I wasn't able to gather much intel online regarding the process of changing cables, so I thought I'd try to write up my experience. Initially, it was my intent to replace a single system at a time, for example, do ailerons, then flaps, then work the tail group. However, changing the aileron involves the rudder and flap cables, as they share common stacked pulley's, so before you know it you have piles of pulley's and wads of cables. I found writing pulley location on the pulley's and stacking them with their associated hardware in the order of removal helpful, and checking the parts manual prior to removing them in order to know if there are any bushings around useful, too. Placing a magnetic retrieval tool adjacent to the work area helped capture the bushings, as they tend to wander off when you pull the bolts. Removing pulley's means you generally don't have replace the keeper cotter pins.

I used safety wire as a means of retrieving the new cables, but that got me into trouble at the aft wing roots when the narrow wire pulled the new cables into the wrong channel, as described above. An 1/8" or so cord might work better. Here are the correct configurations, looking inboard at the outer root:

Left:



Right:



The trim system will need to be disassembled in order to replace the forward chain and cable. In order to avoid having to re-rig the trim, I set the trim wheel so both chain ends were equal of equal length and marked the trim wheel with a gray Sharpey where the trim pointer indicated straight-up and also which groove the trim wheel groove follower was in at that position. Because I never messed with the stabilator chain guards, that kept the trim rigging intact. Also, the needle bearings on the trim wheel can be cleaned and repacked and the pointer freshened up with new white paint.



The flap handle should come out early and go in late, as it's going to be in the way of elevator/aileron cables and the only way I could remove/replace it's associated clevis bolts was with the handle out of the tunnel. The handle is kind of tricky to get out/in and there is a write-up here:

http://www.cessna170.org/forums/viewtop ... =24&t=7304

That's enough for now; more to follow.

Thanks for taking the time to do a write-up!