Thought I would check the elevator travel while I was back there doing the horiz stab insp. service bulletin. The LH and RH elevators are not perfectly even. I remember years ago loosening the bolts where they attach to the elev. bellcrank to try to even them up, but they are still about 1-1.5 deg split. This affects how you measure the elevator travel and whether you need to adjust the stop blocks to increase or decrease travel. I suspect most 180s/early 182s have this condition. Any thoughts?

How are you determining the split?

behindpropellers wrote:How are you determining the split?

If you aerodynamically align say the LH elevator to the stabilizer either visually or by clamping the counter weight horn, the RH side is off by 1 to 1-1/2 deg. And visa-versa.
Second way you can tell is by the digital level that I am using check for the elevator travel and comparing degrees out of level of the left to right.

My "54" is just like that too. I guess after owning it for 30 years and 1250 hrs I'm not going to worry about it.

Option A- the elevator is twisted. Are the trailing edges on the inboard side even? If so your elevator is twisted and would need to be re skinned or put in a jig and re riveted.

Option B- the tip is out of alignment and your trailing edge IB rib is out of alignment. If that’s the case you could rivet a new flange on the torque tube to remedy.

Option C- the horizontal stab was rebuilt twisted. I have seen it but it’s pretty hard to do.

Okay, I’ll be the toad: It’s an OLD friggin airplane. Why are you concerned about 1 to 1.5 degrees difference? I doubt you could tell the difference if they were perfect.

Ie: Who cares?

MTV

My 182 is 62 years old. If I looked at it real closely I would go crazy.

mtv wrote:Okay, I’ll be the toad: It’s an OLD friggin airplane. Why are you concerned about 1 to 1.5 degrees difference? I doubt you could tell the difference if they were perfect.

Ie: Who cares?

MTV

Wondering if this is typical? Want to know if this is the only one like that? Want to know more about the plane? Like to talk about these airplanes? Wouldn't mind learning a rigging hot tip? Enjoy working on it? Trying to have a conversation and that's what is on my mind right now? Always trying to learn something new? Want to strive to make to right?

Sheesh.

Keep on a asking----like you said, got to have something to talk about. I looked at mine this afternoon and with the right side elevator tip lined up just right, the left tip is a little higher than the horizontal.

180Marty wrote: I looked at mine this afternoon and with the right side elevator tip lined up just right, the left tip is a little higher than the horizontal.

Yes, this. Normal. Trying to rationalize the aerodynamics.........

Makes barrel rolls easier. Haven't you guys ever made paper airplanes with control surfaces?

C180_guy wrote:

mtv wrote:Okay, I’ll be the toad: It’s an OLD friggin airplane. Why are you concerned about 1 to 1.5 degrees difference? I doubt you could tell the difference if they were perfect.

Ie: Who cares?

MTV

Wondering if this is typical? Want to know if this is the only one like that? Want to know more about the plane? Like to talk about these airplanes? Wouldn't mind learning a rigging hot tip? Enjoy working on it? Trying to have a conversation and that's what is on my mind right now? Always trying to learn something new? Want to strive to make to right?

Sheesh.

Nothing wrong with that. And, by the same token, I gave you an honest answer to your question. No need to get your undies in a knot.

MTV

I've found this on more than one Skywagon with a heavy wing. Straightened out a few birds this way and picked up a bit of speed. The devil is in the details. Yeah, they are old airplanes, but no reason they have to fly like they are old.

AEROPOD wrote:I've found this on more than one Skywagon with a heavy wing. Straightened out a few birds this way and picked up a bit of speed. The devil is in the details. Yeah, they are old airplanes, but no reason they have to fly like they are old.

Wings, yes. But how do you fix the issue the OP described without re-skinning a control surface? That’s expensive, requires trying to match paint, which is tough, and what will you gain from correcting a one degree difference? In fact, how hard is it going to be to perfectly match them even if you re build them?

And, if you’re getting into this kind of detail, there are almost assuredly several other, perhaps more ugly, issues in many Airframes.

Chasing a one degree difference in a wing “might” show some results that you can measure......maybe. But one degree difference in elevator angles?

MTV

Reminds me of my old C150/150TD..
the rudder had a noticeable twist in it.
It was slightly twanged to the left at the bottom,
and to the right at the top.
This airplane was rebuilt after a pretty severe wreck,
I assume they didn't have the rudder laying flat (or whatever) when they worked on it.
It really bugged a buddy of mine, he always commented on it--
I told him it flew just dandy and so I wasn't gonna worry about it.

mtv wrote:

AEROPOD wrote:I've found this on more than one Skywagon with a heavy wing. Straightened out a few birds this way and picked up a bit of speed. The devil is in the details. Yeah, they are old airplanes, but no reason they have to fly like they are old.

Wings, yes. But how do you fix the issue the OP described without re-skinning a control surface? That’s expensive, requires trying to match paint, which is tough, and what will you gain from correcting a one degree difference? In fact, how hard is it going to be to perfectly match them even if you re build them?

And, if you’re getting into this kind of detail, there are almost assuredly several other, perhaps more ugly, issues in many Airframes.

Chasing a one degree difference in a wing “might” show some results that you can measure......maybe. But one degree difference in elevator angles?

MTV

A little time with a rat tail file at the torque tube will do it. Just need to slot the holes a bit, not much at all.

One degree difference in a wing is HUGE, so fixing that will absolutely show results.

HOHOHO Mike!

And enlarging bolt holes in a torque tube in a control surface would be approved by the FAA?

Whatever winds your watch, I reckon.

MTV

mtv wrote:And enlarging bolt holes in a torque tube in a control surface would be approved by the FAA?

Whatever winds your watch, I reckon.

MTV

Probably just as approved as mismatched elevators.

Before anybody starts "fixing" the uneven elevators on their C180/182 you may want to do some additional research. This could be something cessna did intentionally to offset the effects of engine torque or slipstream in cruise flight. Don't know for sure.

Lost wrote:Before anybody starts "fixing" the uneven elevators on their C180/182 you may want to do some additional research. This could be something cessna did intentionally to offset the effects of engine torque or slipstream in cruise flight. Don't know for sure.

I was thinking the same thing but didn’t want to say it because I’m not sure if it’s true. My elevators on my 180 seem to be a little off from each other though.