Alright guys,

I just sold the Citabria and the wife and I have decided that a 182 is the best(maybe) all around for our mission.

I am looking at early model 182's and would like some help.

http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_ ... 21%21.html

The link above seems like it fits everything I am looking for.

Does anyone have recommendations or advice?
Also does anyone know someone who can do a prebuy in the Memphis area if this turns out to be an opportunity?

Thanks

Jackson

Hey Jackson. Funny thing, I have my Citabria listed as well, and as much as I like 180s, I have a hard time spending way more then a nice lower time 182. I imagine thats what I'll end up with. Im thinking a bit newer, with auto pilot and LR tanks. Maybe Im crazy, but it sure would be nice for flying longer trips. Good luck on your search, and I'll be keeping a close eye on this thread.

David

I did not see hours on the plane/engine when I clicked on your link, kind of important info, made me wonder why they did not mention it. As far as 182's in general, hard to beat one, I had one for 17 years and it did about everything I asked. A good autopilot would be something I would require, great to have when traveling, and a real asset if coupled with a GPS for instrument approaches, if you ever go that route.

Steve

A1Skinner,

Good luck with the sell. I had to come off my price a little but not much. It really wasnt hard to sell at all.

Steve,

The hours are shown on the pictures only (first picture footer) so thats probably something they are getting skipped over for.
Looks like TTAF : 2964 TSMOH: 39.

I guess a better question is, for that price why wouldnt it have sold the last time it was on Barnstormers. It went off the listings a while back and just came back on. What kind of things would you 182 "experts" be asking about and looking for in this model?

Thanks for any help.

Jackson

In regards to the question of why it maybe wasn't sold and taken off-then put back on Barnstormers, I'll give my two cents based on my experience.
There are 10,000 tire kickers, BS'ers, outright liars, and lowballers out ther for every ONE true buyer. The seller gets fed up with all these people nd removes the listing. The seller (in my case) changes their mind about selling and then realizes they either don't fly it enough and relist it.
I can't recall exactly how many guys were 'on there way' to put a deposit or buy the plane that never showed up or called back with an excuse. When someone says 'I'll take it" the seller takes their word for it and then never hear from the prospective buyer again.
They waste hours of your tme on the phone saying they are sending a check which never arrives nor do you ever hear from them again.....just some of the reason's people remove and then relist a plane.

I will have to say the lowballers are the worst, I guess they think because they have a 'little' money they can buy anything for pennies on the dollar. I have had people make offers of less than 50% of asking price and then they argue about it. One guy in particular even tired to prove his point by sending emails with an online dealers price. Had to respond in kind by showing him how he was $1200.00 off in the total cost of his 'find'. The item was $1800 compared to his $600 quote. I had mine listed for $500 under that and the item was like new. He called and raised his offer but I refuse to deal with someone that lies and tries to cheat people. He will have to buy new and spend the full price if he wants it.

In my personal opinion if I am interested in a plane I would travel to see it in person. No mater who you hire to look at it can not get the same view that you will have of a prospective plane. They can definitely tell you its mechanical and legal condition but it is you that will be flying it and have to make the final decission to be its new owner.

As a owner/pilot/A&P of several straight tail 182s I see nothing wrong about your 58 choice - although I'm not familiar with 0-470-D in 182 airframe , should be a 0-470- L or R engine. I would get a Prebuy by A&P of your choice before anything else transpires . Prop is big issue and should be inspected 110% . I'm patucirly impressed with panel but it does have decent radios. Madras tips are nice - but watch your head ! Go for extended baggage and firewall mounted battery and you can't go wrong . send me email at [email protected] and I'll send you ( or whoever ) the " Straight tail rescorces " pamphlet that I wrote. Overall pre 1960 182 are basicly 180's with a nose wheel .

JaxI do prebuys all over the World

FWIW, I don't know anything about 182s, but I did just spend what felt like the equivalent of a full-time job chasing 180s and 185s during the past six months. Found that pictures almost always look a lot nicer than the actual bird. A quick wipe-down with WD-40 on a rag makes anything look pretty good for a photo shoot. And the 4-5 shots in most Barnstormers listings hardly begin to tell the story. A site like Skywagons.com will have more than two dozen shots of each plane. If you're getting serious enough to travel to see it, hopefully you've already queried Aerospacereports.com (or FAA (=slower)) for title search, airworthiness records, and accident reports. I was looking at an A185F that looked especially pretty in the ad. Through the title search and a little googling I was able to track down the original owner (in Canada, i.e. no FAA Accident Reports exist from that time). He was a really nice guy, and quite happy to tell me all about the time it was submerged in salt water up to the back of the pilot's seat. A full airworthiness check can also shed plenty of light on logged repairs. Those don't generally tell why it was repaired, but certain repairs do suggest the nature/ severity of the event. In addition, with an old bird like this there may be some desirable stuff way back in the airworthiness records that everyone's forgotten about. Like, in my case, approval for external loads, and approval to take a door off for parachute jumps. If you haven't, just take some time to google the N-number, with and without the N, with and without the make and model. And search under images too. I've also turned up a lot of info this way that wasn't revealed in the sale listing, including a 180 on its back in the trees.
Cheers and good luck,
-DP

WWhunter,

All very good points. I didnt have this happen to me while selling my plane but I could see this being very irritating to a seller. My question was geared more towards "do any of you see something with this plane off hand that would turn everyone away."

I emailed the seller who is a friend of the owner and he says that the overhaul was done late 90's early 2000's as was the rest of the restoration. Having only 40 hrs on the motor in that timeframe doesnt really sit well even though he "says" that the motor has been run occasionaly. Just not enough hours to give a good feeling. Any thoughts?

Thanks again for any help guys; I know there are many knowledgeable people/resources on this board.
Also if you know of a solid 182 feel free to shoot me a PM.

Jackson

Running the engine occasionally over the last 10 or 12 years didn't do it any good. That was the case with my LRB, which threw a rod after I'd had her for 15 hours. Often the potential engine problems won't show up on any pre-buy, but you can just about count on problems from lack of use. So that needs to be taken into account as to whether the price is appropriate--you may be in the market for a new engine a whole lot sooner than you would like.

The panel on this one is OK, but certainly not current avionics.

The biggest issue with any 182, especially pre-1970, is a relatively weak nose gear/firewall. Even later models have some issues with it, but the pre-1970 models are worse. That means that any hard landing is likely to have dinged the firewall. There are 2 issues there, did it happen, and was it properly repaired.

I'm involved in litigation right now in which the airplane, a 67 Skylane, had at least 2 significant prangs when it was near new resulting in 2 NTSB reports with the possibility of another accident which didn't get to the NTSB, and at some point the firewall was improperly replaced. The buyer was fooled by a nice paint job and nice interior, decided not to do a pre-buy, didn't recognize the unairworthy repairs (some were, of course, covered over by the nice paint), and basically was cheated. My litigation is between him and the mechanic he hired to make it airworthy--their dispute is over the cost and length of time necessary to properly repair it.

If the airplane you're looking at only has standard tanks, you're basically looking at a 3 hour range plus reserves. Not sure that's bad (I have a hard time flying longer than that, although my airplane can), but it's a factor. Earlier 182s don't have the width of later ones, but they're still wider than a 172, so that's not a big deal. They don't have the load carrying capacity of newer ones, but still plenty for most people's needs.

I have the Madras tips--the previous owner had installed them. They look STOL-ish, which I suppose is cool. They do provide better low airspeed control, but they also add drag. I figure they lopped off maybe 4-5 knots at cruise, which I got back by having flap gap seals installed. They do interfere a little with visibility, and they are head knockers. But I elected to leave them on.

If indeed the airplane passes a thorough pre-buy, I think the biggest issue will be the engine, due to its low hours SMOH over such a long period of time. Second for me would be the dated avionics, which would be expensive to bring up to date.

Cary

Jackson, I would call the chap and figure out what "restoration" means exactly.. If putting new lipstick (P&I) is a restoration then you will know. I would be leery of an engine that has been occasionally "ran" and not flown in 20 years. I would price it in the high 30's myself if I were buying. Like Bill said, the prop can cost you money so it should be checked out thoroughly. Bill is a good resource for questions on straight tail birds and any of the Cessna singles. I'm aware of a clean '60 model in Montana that will sell around 38-40k with about 700 hrs on the motor. It doesn't have the panel that your candidate has but we are corrosion snobs out in the West and I would rather start with a clean structure. And if Bill has never seen a "D" model in a 182…thats rare.

The firewall always deserves a close inspection. It's pretty easy to do. There are ways to make the tunnel bulletproof without a lot of modification.

As for the prop, I've actually never heard that it is anything but bulletproof.

lesuther wrote:The firewall always deserves a close inspection. It's pretty easy to do. There are ways to make the tunnel bulletproof without a lot of modification.

Yes, remove the nosewheel and put it back under the rudder where it belongs

EZFlap wrote:Yes, remove the nosewheel and put it back under the rudder where it belongs

Of course, judging from the flying wrecks I've looked at when I was looking for a 180, if you did that you'd have to beef up the tail, the wings, the engine mount, the propeller, ....

You guys arej a great resource. Thank you very much for the insight. I am delivering my Citabria on Saturday (half way anyway) and will get serious about going to see some potential cadidates. I like to have all of my questions lined up about anything I am thinking about buying so I appreciate this thread.

Thanks

Jackson