After sitting next to me while I hand flew in IMC for 3 hours the other day, my wife informed me it would be a good idea to get an autopilot. I’m honestly not that excited about it, but she’s right. I’m vaguely aware that there are (or have been) offerings from TruTrak, Trio, Garmin, and Dynon. If I do this, I’ll be installing dual G5s or maybe the Dynon equivalent, and pulling the vacuum system. I have a GTN650 and a GTX345.

Feature-wise, altitude hold is a must, preselect would be nice. VNAV on approaches is a must. Airspeed climbs seem like a better idea than ROC climbs, but I could learn either one. I don’t feel strongly about GPSS, but I think it comes with the G5 anyway. No one has autotrim for 185s; I’ll want the least objectionable trim reminder. Flashing lights are ok, beeping is undesirable.

I HATE avionics work. It’s been my experience that avionics shops are like still ponds and gremlins are leeches that glom onto any airplane that has the misfortune of going into one. What’s a cost-effective and gremlin resistant approach to this upgrade?

PM Sent

Put a GFC 500 in my ‘53 180 last winter. Already had dual G5s and a GTN 650. Unfortunately COVID struck right before my IPC so no real instrument time yet. That being said, it”s a pretty awesome setup. I’m no huge fan of Garmin, but sticking with one platform seemed to make sense to me.

Dynon Auto Pilot is not certified on any Cessna other than a 172 as of right now - the 182 is on the cusp of getting certified. I asked them if they could piggy back the 180/185 on 182 paperwork, said they could not - BUT that one of the owners of Dynon has a 180 so that I could be assured the 180/185 would be coming - but for now its not listed on their website as underway.

Except for Garmin, you could have your local friendly A&P /IA install the auto-pilot and stay away from those icky avionics shops. Put a TruTrak in a 182A last winter and will probably be putting one in my 180E this winter.

Rod
Blue Sky Aviation
A Not Icky Avionics shop

It’s not the avionics shops, it’s the avionics. The gremlins are caged behind the panel; any disruption threatens to open the cage.

Been shopping for a year for a185f. The options are few. With Roberston stol even fewer. Here's what I learned.
1. Trutrak. Simple, more independent system. Apparently can't turn off altitude hold. Both vertical and horizontal or nothing. Would not install one now until/if Bendix gets their shit together.
2. Trio. Well established experimental company and the STC group seems responsive. A little harder to dial in but once installed people like them.
3. Garmin GFC 500. Plays best with Garmin. Supposedly rock steady and if you want a G5 or 275 (which you need). Most likely to have support and probably best choice for most.
4. Stec 30, 55, 60. Works with RSTOL. Old technology but reliable. Surprisingly not cheaper. Even if you find a used one the company won't talk to you unless you get refurbished by them which is $8500 so no point. You can get a factory refurbished box with new servos for about $9K

I've had good luck with Trio units I have installed. I believe they are the only ones that offer airspeed climb. Can run as a wing leveler, alt hold, or both. Ive had good customer support. I like that you can hook them up and drive them with a handheld GPS.

It would be great to hear from someone with first-hand experience with a B/K-TruTrak.

Everything I’ve heard so far about Trio agrees with A1Skinner: it works well once you get it to work right, but that can take some fiddling. I’m pretty impatient with fiddling, so that could be a challenge. However, airspeed climb is attractive in a Skywagon setup, where autotrim is unavailable.

No one complains about GFC500, except to complain about Garmin generally, which I think is valid.

When these new systems were first approved, the aviation boards were giddy with “Look! Autopilots for $5000! No more $25000 autopilots!” Then everyone went out and spent $25000 anyway, albeit on much better stuff.

StuBob wrote:It would be great to hear from someone with first-hand experience with a B/K-TruTrak.

Everything I’ve heard so far about Trio agrees with A1Skinner: it works well once you get it to work right, but that can take some fiddling. I’m pretty impatient with fiddling, so that could be a challenge. However, airspeed climb is attractive in a Skywagon setup, where autotrim is unavailable.

No one complains about GFC500, except to complain about Garmin generally, which I think is valid.

When these new systems were first approved, the aviation boards were giddy with “Look! Autopilots for $5000! No more $25000 autopilots!” Then everyone went out and spent $25000 anyway, albeit on much better stuff.

I put a TruTrack in a 182. Seemed to work just fine.

Bendix King support was about 33%. I had a question I emailed them for the information, politician response. Friend of mine asked for the same data and they gave it to them.

I don't understand why they do not include any drilling templates for the servo in the tail, very annoying. The installation directions are poor. "go look on our website at the pictures". Simple things like orientation of the DB connector for the servo in the wing. Proper documentation would have saved at least 4 hours of guesswork.

Seems to track and hold altitude correctly. Lou Furlong would be the guy to talk with on real world operation.

Tim

I have a Trio in my 185 and although it took a good deal of time to tune it in it does work just fine. I do like the A/S hold feature allowing climbs with little or no trim changes. There a few minor bugs in the S/W and the unit needs to be sent back to Trio for upgrade which I don't like.

My A185F goes in for avionics rip and replace next week. For me, it’s all about the autopilot and what it can do. I chose the GFC 500. No electric trim-not available, and no yaw damper-seems unnecessary with a big square tail holding things aligned.

Slippery slope on the panel. I stuck with dual G5. GI 275 has a few extra features, but more money, and once you’re there, for a little more, you could have a G3X. I resisted both those temptations. I could always pull a G5 later, and install a G3X. Dual G5 was the cheapest way to get a wind barb, TAS, and be legal to pull the vacuum system.

I wanted the autopilot to be able to exercise every capability it had, so that requires a GTN. It will auto switch to ground based nav from GPS nav on a localizer, ILS, VOR, or backcourts approach. It will also provided VNav capability. I glanced at the GTN 750xi, but managed to avert my eyes and stayed with the GTN 650xi. It will fly any approach, sid, or star a single engine piston pounder could possibly be expected to fly.

These four components together cannot be bested by anything else out there. Not STEC, not Trio, not True Track, not King. Not Avidyne, and not Aspen. Not Dynon either. I looked at all the permutations of the available options, and aside from a lower cost, there was no set of features that could change my mind. Cost is a factor for me, but I also looked at bang for the buck, and the Garmin just added up.

I recently updated my panel on my C180. I had an old S-TEC 50 that needed some servo work. I elected to spend the money on the GFC-500 upgrade. I would have to look at the paperwork but I believe it added 50 hours of labor in cost. The GFC-500 as others have mentioned is just an outstanding unit and is very user friendly. IAS climbs, pre-select altitudes, Vnav/VS descents and easy to use approach modes. It integrates perfectly with my GTN650xi. It saved a fair amount of weight - the servos on the Garmin unit only weigh 1.4 lbs. There is some beeping for reminders regarding altitude and if the unit is on/off but for trim reminders there are bright yellow alerts seen on the G5 that tell you which way to move the trim wheel. I think the cheaper cost for the other units mentioned is due to not needing an authorized Garmin dealer to do the installation. My mechanical skills are not one of my strengths and avionics work just seems too technical and complicated for me to even consider. I think if you are someone who can do the avionics work consider the cheaper options but if you are going to be paying a shop to do the work the extra cost of the GFC-500 will be worth it. I have no regrets.

The only other thing worth mentioning about the GFC 500 is the ESP feature (Electronic Stability Protection). This is a "safety" feature added that prevents the plane from entering any unusual pitch or attitude change. It activates at 500 feet AGL even if the autopilot is off and will not disarm until below 200 feet AGL. I have to manually deactivate it prior to every engine start. Not a big deal but definitely added to the checklist. It will not let me fly an approach lower than 75 mph.


Josh

75mph??? Is that adjustable?

StuBob wrote:75mph??? Is that adjustable?

The ESP activates due extremes of pitch and bank changes. I do not know the exact settings but they are preset by Garmin. Not sure how much nose up pitch is required but for me with my power setting low it usually activates at 75 mph. I believe the bank angle is around 45 degrees. When I first picked up the airplane from the shop nobody warned me about the ESP. I flew it back home and on the final approach found myself fighting with the AP until 200 feet AGL. It can be overpowered when the AP is turned off but I believe it reactivates after 10 seconds. I read up on the ESP after that first flight and deactivate it before takeoff now. It is also on my landing checklist. It has no place for backcountry or STOL operations. It is probably great for pavement pounding faster airplanes flying IFR flight plans.


Josh

I deactivate the ESP on all VFR flights. It can be permanently disarmed if one likes. Too good of a feature to totally disregard in my opinion. One just simply understand they systems on their aircraft and utilize them to max extent possible.

MW

185Midwest wrote:I deactivate the ESP on all VFR flights. It can be permanently disarmed if one likes. Too good of a feature to totally disregard in my opinion. One just simply understand they systems on their aircraft and utilize them to max extent possible.

MW

Can you tell me how to permanently disarm it? I have read through the manuals and have not found a source.



Josh

Josh,

Immediatley powering up the G-5 hold the knob in. This will bring you to the configuration menu. Scroll down to ESP, enter that menu and scroll to the selection you would like.

MW

185Midwest wrote:

IMG_8172.jpeg

Josh,

Immediatley powering up the G-5 hold the knob in. This will bring you to the configuration menu. Scroll down to ESP, enter that menu and scroll to the selection you would like.

MW

Thanks MW - I see I can adjust the speeds too. I thought it was a factory setting for pitch. I am guessing they set it at 75 mph. I will have to play with it now - but I probably will just turn it off.


Josh

Thanks! I’ve definitely scrambled a few times to disarm ESP on short final.