Looks like the start of a ground loop followed by too much brake to me

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/colombia/4400262/Plane-flips-over-during-landing.html?source=newswidget

Gawddamn...

You'd have to work real hard to do that in a Cessna 180. Sad to see.

Gump

Tailwinds? It looks like the pilot was trying to show off his wheel landing skills. It sounded like he added some power after he touched down.

Odd that the camera was there--Makes you go hmmm???

Firefighters doused the plane with water before a tow truck removed it from the runway.

Hey, why not?- Can't pass up a great chance like that to clean the belly!

It sure was going left when he hit the binders.....kinda made me shiver and remember the ground loop in the buzzard last may.....the right main tore out of the belly. Only good thing about that day was the BAS harnesses....not a scratch or even a bruise. 42K of damage sure doesn't look like much.......

Watch the elevator deflection. He started out in a wheel landing, but never really got the tail up. So he's got the tail low on the roll out, then just sort of let the tail settle, rather than pinning it with full elevator. He didn't get full up elevator in there till the tail started coming up, which was probably more related to brake application than wind at that speed.

Bummer, in any case.

MTV

Looks like he coulda just gone off into the grass.From the view on google earth he had all kinds of room to let it go without getting on the brakes.Sad to see.

Bill

More like head-up-ass was to blame!
It's rough gettin' 'er figured out but I was taught two basic rule's when I started to fly tailwheels.
1. Land INTO the wind!
2. Stay OFF the brakes until slow. (There was enough tire squealing on the initial rollout you thought he was running over a pack of dogs!)
So either way........pilot error!
Nice old 180 to be f$%king up too. To bad.

I think MTV...

...has got it figured out. It is not for certain that there even was a tailwind. Just comments from the TV announcer.

It appears to me that he was applying brakes during a wheel landing and trying to keep the tail up. Braking with the tail up is O.K. if you are skilled. It is a quick way to slow and get the tail down at the same time. But be darned sure that the stick is coming back in your stomach as you brake and moderate the brakes accordingly.

It appears that the elevator was neutral, at best, as the pilot applied uneven braking.

If we pilots never screwed up....there would be a lot less accidents/incidents. For sure it ruined his day.

Bob

bmurrish wrote:Looks like the start of a ground loop followed by too much brake to me

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/colombia/4400262/Plane-flips-over-during-landing.html?source=newswidget

That is exactly what it looked like to me. I never did see any rudder deflection to keep the nose from going to the left. It looked to me like a 180 driver with dead feet on the rudder pedals.

Uh, I would argue a 172 (or 182) driver, with dead feet and head up arse.

Lots of "guitar heroes" these days in airplanes they never learned to fly properly.

Which is why insurance rates have gone crazy particularly in certain makes and models.

Still a bummer, using up a nice airplane.

And the bottom line is that it COULD happen to any of us. I'd like to think if I ever did that, however, the controls would be moving just a little bit more, engaging in a wee bit more of that "pilot shit". So to speak.

MTV

Damn...

I don't think there was a breath of wind, either, watch the spraying water toward the end...

I guess it makes the rest of the 180s worth a little more....

Yeh, I was looking for evidence of wind also, and didn't see any. Didn't seem to be any effort to get the tail on the ground and get things under control.

I would hope that if it happened to me, there wouldn't be someone there with a camera, to show it to you guys later in the week.

As a new Skywagon owner I have learned two very specific things from this:

Don't be THAT GUY!
If your going to be THAT GUY, make sure there are no cameras around!

Seriously though, that does put emphasis on pinning the tail to the surface with full aft elevator for steering control once it is time. The other lesson that my instructor up in Fairbanks, Curtis, continually taught me was that I purchased the wrong plane and to always be scared to the 180 when landing. My guage for how the landings were going was how hard he was laughing at me. If I was the guy in this clip, we would have been upside down, and you would hear him laughing from across the field.

Brett

Brett

Don't really know why you would land with a tailwind strong enough to create a problem for your landing, unless you already had a problem, and were into a forced landing/oneway strip situation.

But if you were, you want to be careful with that "full aft elevator" idea in a strong tailwind situation. That could actually cause your tail to be picked up, especially with some aggressive braking.

Do what you got to do to land the plane, and keep it under control, but if you are rolling out/taxiing with a big tailwind you would really want full forward elevator to keep the tail on the ground.

Gary

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply the landing tailwind part. I was talking landing in general. At my stage they are all an adventure. I probably need to go back to lurking until I get a couple more hours.

No, I don't think you need to go back. I think bringing these things up is a good thing. That is a good way to find out what works and doesn't work.

I think there are a lot of people out there with misconceptions, or just wanting to learn about flying/backcountry flying. I know that is why I am here.

Gary

lowflyin'G3 wrote:More like head-up-ass was to blame! . ...

That's known as a cranial/rectal inversion, just in case you want to get technical.

And once the guy came to a stop and got out to assess the damage, he suddenly had "optical recticulosis", whereby his optical nerve and rectal nerve become crossed and he had a $hitty outlook on life.

The two sentences that preceed most of these sort of things are:

1. Hey, watch this!!

2. Here, hold my beer.