Gravity still working against us.....damn.

Hope it lightens up a bit tomorrow, gotta take the kiddies for a ride.

lowflyin'G3 wrote:Gravity still working against us.....damn.

Hope it lightens up a bit tomorrow, gotta take the kiddies for a ride.

Did you really just post that?

2 people just died,


re·spect

–noun

1.
a particular, detail, or point (usually prec. by in): to differ in some respect.

2.
relation or reference: inquiries with respect to a route.

3.
esteem for or a sense of the worth or excellence of a person, a personal quality or ability, or something considered as a manifestation of a personal quality or ability: I have great respect for her judgment.

4.
deference to a right, privilege, privileged position, or someone or something considered to have certain rights or privileges; proper acceptance or courtesy; acknowledgment: respect for a suspect's right to counsel; to show respect for the flag; respect for the elderly.

5.
the condition of being esteemed or honored: to be held in respect.

6.
respects, a formal expression or gesture of greeting, esteem, or friendship: Give my respects to your parents.

7.
favor or partiality.

8.
Archaic. a consideration.

Did you really just post that?


I don't think respect will bring 'em back.......

Suppose it's worth a try........
But hasen't worked well so far.

lc

After burying our dog of 11 yrs just 1 hour ago, I can tell you that their family is absolutely heart broke.
Bummer deal. God rest their souls.

Small Tail Caddy wrote:After burying our dog of 11 yrs just 1 hour ago, I can tell you that their family is absolutely heart broke.

I've felt that pain, more than once. They really are "Mans Best friend". Stay tough.

I think loosing loved ones (no matter how many legs they have)is just part of life. I lost my best friend and Hunting Partner a couple weeks ago to cancer. We had been friends since Jr. High. He lost his leg seven months before he died and was really having a hard time dealing with that. He was 53. Someone lost their loved ones in this crash but I think if I had the choice between the two, I would take the plane. Rest in Peace.

Littlecub wrote:I don't think respect will bring 'em back.......

Suppose it's worth a try........
But hasen't worked well so far.

lc

Hey all I'm saying is it's a good sign of character when you show some respect for someones loss.

I dont know the people who died personally, however as someone who had the unfortunate experience of burying a handful of loved ones (as well as a few pets), I find people who make lite of others losses despicable.

James (93K),
As long as you're thumbing through the dictionary, you might look up "presumption" and "interpretation" or better yet "communicate". I would encourage you to use the same forethought with your words which you demand of others. If you're really that incensed, give G3 a call. I'd wager you'll come away apologizing.
Matt

My healthy reminder that gravity can kill any of us at any time and the need to constantly meter your rate of descent in to the earth at ALL times is no sign of disrespect for either occupant.....yet.
Even after the NTSB is done the 21 year old kid riding has my sorrow no matter what, especially if we find out that dad killed him through poor judgement, poor maintenance, or poor skill.
Now dad, that's another story. If we find a wing a mile from the crash and find out that the airplane was in annual, and that the wing hadn't separated from coming out the bottom of a thunderstorm at 400 miles an hour with no instrument rating or that he suffered a heart atttack in flight FIRST THEN he's got my sorrow too. But IF we find that he shredded that 210 into the trees in the fog trying to scud run around unfamiliar, semi-mountainous terrain well then, you pay your money, you take your chances. No sorrow. I'm not the type of guy that cries over the one who gets crushed by the candy machine rocking it to get the snickers bar out that hung up.
I recognize we all have different sensitivity levels and it takes all kinds. I, through my time in this career am probably a bit more desensitized than most. 37 of my 37 years on the planet involved in aviation, 17,000 hours and 1500 jumps I have seen, known and heard about more than one person getting killed in aviation. My parents subscribed to the NTSB reporter for me when I was 8 so I've read about a bunch over the years too.
I remember one time at about 18 I was walking out to the runway with 19 others to board a Twin Otter to make a jump while the previous load was in freefall. One of the jumpers had a malfunction and all 20 of us watched him not cut away and not pull his reserve thus bouncing off the end of the runway. When the airplane landed two minutes later I climbed up onto the pilots door and told him that a guy had just gone in and what did he want to do. He said if we wanted to go, let's go. I jumped down, walked around the airplane yelled to see who wanted to still jump the load. All but two. So less than twenty minutes later we were in freefall right over the EMS ambulance and sheriff in the field off the end of the runway. Yes it was sad, his fiancee was there, his buddies were there, you had to give a quick thought about his parents in such a situation. BUT you pay your money, you take your chances.
If you look through the NTSB reprts you will find that their have been 85 fatalities in the last 30 days, not including these two, for U.S. registered or airline aircraft only. I wonder what the world total is for aviation related fatalities for the same measly 30 day period. It's not as special as you think and MOST of them can be traced back to poor judgement, poor maintenance, or poor skill. Only the riders get my sorrow on those.
The best thing I believe we can do is to use them as a little reminder that this shit is dangerous and that it can happen at any time to any one of us. Then utilize the reports to find out what NOT to do as the pilot. Then be scared shitless to ever put yourself in a situation where you not only kill yourself but take another innocent with you (be they in the plane or on the ground) and MAYBE, with that and a little luck, you might make it. But I would get more wrapped up in the "why" not the "that's so sad" if you want to really make their deaths worth something and have something good come of it for others.
So I'll say it again; Gravity - 24/7/365 and at the bottom of gravity is a big hard rock. Watch your rate of descent into it, especially where the rock plays tricks on you and gets briefly not only below, but in front of you!
Just a reminder, be careful out there.
I'm taking the family out today in the 180, if I end up in a crater and you find out that I killed them through poor judgement, poor maintenance, or poor skill feel sad for them and then come piss on my spot in the crater for killing them will ya? I don't look at myself any different.

I used live in Spokane...condolences to the family... G3 excellent post

Matt 7GCBC wrote:James (93K),
As long as you're thumbing through the dictionary, you might look up "presumption" and "interpretation" or better yet "communicate". I would encourage you to use the same forethought with your words which you demand of others. If you're really that incensed, give G3 a call. I'd wager you'll come away apologizing.
Matt

Maybe I didnt have the whole picture when I posted. Still I am just saying remember that was someone who died. Heck I know very well life goes on, if you get killed people still go to lunch!

The big drawback to all this online stuff is the difficulty reading the underlining sentiment behind what someone writes (be it humor, condolence, whatever).

NineThreeKilo wrote:The big drawback to all this online stuff is the difficulty reading the underlining sentiment behind what someone writes (be it humor, condolence, whatever).

That's why I use the smiley things

I can be as big an asshole as I want to be, but it gives the illusion that I'm a nice guy and that I care

Gump

I was working on a radio tower at Schweitzer ski area all day friday (30 miles north of the crash site) weather all day was going from IFR to VFR and back with visibility changing from 50 miles to less than 100 feet in a few minutes. layers of clouds were moving all over the valley below me all day, at altitudes of ground level to 10,000 msl. in short it was a day to go IFR or scud running thru the valley. I cannot say exactly what the weather was at the time of the crash.

Yes, it IS a damn shame when crashes happen, and lives are changed and lost forever. That, apparently, will go on as long as planes fly. Very unnecessary, but despite our best efforts, people make dumb mistakes. Some learn from theirs, others (unfortunately) don't get a second chance. Really hard on those hurt, and the loved ones of those killed.

That, and all it implies, being said, lets cut each other a little more slack on these forums, and not be so ready to get our hackles up over what we 'think they might have been saying'. We can't be nice to those who are 'gone', but we can tread a little softer on each others toes in the meantime......

We all handle 'STUFF' in our own way........

lc

Littlecub wrote:Yes, it IS a damn shame when crashes happen, and lives are changed and lost forever. That, apparently, will go on as long as planes fly. Very unnecessary, but despite our best efforts, people make dumb mistakes. Some learn from theirs, others (unfortunately) don't get a second chance. Really hard on those hurt, and the loved ones of those killed.

That, and all it implies, being said, lets cut each other a little more slack on these forums, and not be so ready to get our hackles up over what we 'think they might have been saying'. We can't be nice to those who are 'gone', but we can tread a little softer on each others toes in the meantime......

We all handle 'STUFF' in our own way........

lc

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I've wanted to say this for a while and haven't. As long as I have been coming here it seems like all these threads end up the same way. Someone takes offense that people are either speculating or pointing fingers and the discussion stops until the report comes out.

I think even speculation brings out points that should be considered not only in the accident being discussed but with all of us and our day to day flying. We might never know what really happened but if ideas are discussed that keeps one of us alive it would be well worth it.

I learn a lot here from reading posts from people who have more experience than I will ever have. I've used what I have learned here and passed some on to others. One lifetime is not enough to gain the knowledge here on this forum. Accidents like this are exactly what we should be discussing. I can already fly in no weather situations at 10,000'.

If I ever bury my plane I want everyone to feel free to call me an idiot, speculate what I did or didn't do. Hopefully someone can learn from my mistakes. I really won't take offense, I'll be dead.

Jerry

There is a reason this forum is called "Accident Analysis" and not "Condolences." The primary purpose of posting accident reports and news stories that we read is to glean some measure of useful knowledge from the misfortune of others.

Personally, I find the most disturbing of these to be the ones where no obvious causality exists, and so we're all left scratching our heads pondering an undeniably tragic outcome with little to be learned other than a confirmation of our fears that flying is indeed as unforgiving as we thought. It's my hope that by sharing our thoughts about the specifics of these events, that we can spur discussion that will hopefully live in the back of each of our minds when we're in the cockpit. I read several of these a day, but I generally only post the ones that I feel have potential for discussion. In this case, a crash in northern Idaho in rough terrain.

It's probably a good idea to make at least an attempt to relegate your comments in this particular forum (Accident Analysis) to specifics of the crash, and refrain from wild speculation, so that topics stay relevant and don't regress into major battles of who has more or less respect. We all have respect, I say that confidently.

You have to be careful.(flying) That's the first thing I can say. I don't come down on G3 at all for his first post. You take a big risk when you fly in an airplane. I spend a good portion of my life in the middle of airliners....boring...... However, I feel for those that have lost their lives in an airplane, or in any other way period. And it is very sad and my condolences go out to all that have lost anyone.

I knew Bob Danner pretty well, and Dia is one of the biggest reasons I do what I do. Tough lady. I also knew Bob Plummer and Scott Brower. All incredibly sad situations. Both Danner and Plummer were incredible pilots. I am still shocked that Bob Danner crashed. Blows my mind.... Flew into a snowstorm. To his credit, he saved the life of the other guy that was flying for him (Stanley Air Taxi) and told him to head back to Pistol Creek. And, unfortunately, Bob flew on in.... well you all know the story.......

I feel pretty lucky to have known Bob Danner, and Bob Plummer, as well as being lucky enough to be tought how to fly by none other than Steve Cope of Middle Fork Aviation. (and Pete) If there ever was anything you wanted to learn about flying, just ask Steve, he is the guru of aviation.

I am sorry for all that have lost friends and family.....

Sorry that was a bit off topic.... kind of. just lost a lot of people that fly in Idaho. (have flown) You have to be careful there. Its easy to find yourself in a pickle when you are there. And the pickles you can get into usually end up as a funeral.