I wanted to get everyone's opinion on which aircraft would work best for my needs. I feel like either a 180 or 182 would be best. I have 3 really young kids and my wife so I would like to be able to haul them around as long as I can and yes I know a 185 or 206 would work but there a bit out of my price range and more expensive to operate. Eventually I would like to put the plane on floats/skis but would probably not be able to for a few years and would keep it on wheels. The type of flying I plan on doing is generally at first a bit of exploring airport to airport but my end result would be to go a bit back country landing on off airport strips for hunting, fishing, trapping and going in and out of our cabin which would have to be floats/skis or wheels on a froze lake. I would also like to teach my kids/wife how to fly if there interested, so something that's not to hard to fly or intimidating. I have done some research and realize the 182 has to have a different engine mount to be able to be put on floats but there also a bit cheaper than 180's and it seems like the older straight tail 182's are the sough after ones however I don't want to get a 182 and try to turn it into a 180 and never be satisfied with it when I should of got a 180 all along. I appreciate everyone's opinion this will also be our first airplane and we have just started the process of looking its a bit overwhelming to say the least.

What’s a 205 going for these days relative to a 182 or 206?

Cessna 180H.

I’m sure you know that all 182s are 4 place airplanes. With that said, there is an STC out there to put 3 seatbelts on the rear bench. The 62 and up “wide body” 182s would be better for this since they are 4” wider than all 180/185 and 1956-1961 182s. This will work for a while but when those kids get bigger you’re going to want a real 6 seat airplane if you plan on hauling the whole family. Some late model 180s and 185s have the optional 5/6th seats in the back but still not a great 6 place airplane. The Cessna 205 would be a great option for you but you probably won’t ever be able to put it on floats or skis. They are generally a lot cheaper than a 206 if you can find one. They were only made for 2 years so there’s not many of them out there compared to 206s. Another option that’s generally cheaper than a 206 is a Cherokee six, no option for floats and skis with that either though.

John wrote:I have done some research and realize the 182 has to have a different engine mount to be able to be put on floats

There is quite a bit more than just changing the engine mount to put a 182 on floats. 182 were never floatplanes from the factory so an STC’d Kit is required. 2 companies offer kits, wipaire and seaplanes west(acorn welding). I’ve installed a seaplanes west kit on my plane and it was a lot of work.

What's your flight experience?

You're asking an unreasonable amount from one airplane, unless you think teaching new students is a 180 is economical, or even sane.

I haven't full looked into the stc for a 182 to convert to floats but I do understand its quite an ordeal and can be expensive. I know I'm asking a lot out of one airplane and there's going to be some give and take. while the kids are young I would like to haul everyone around but fully understand when they get older I will have to make a few trips to get everyone to the same spot. I have no plans to use this as an airplane to teach students to fly just my kids/wife. As far as my experience level goes I have close to 750 hrs total time I have my cfi, tail wheel, floats, high performance ratings and work as an A&P on 737. most of my hours are from instructing students at a local flight school I help out at when I have time, most of my hours are in 152/172.

It's not going to take long for those kids to grow big enough that you're not going to fit all that in a 182 and certainly not a 180.

I agree that a 205 or a Cherokee Six would be near perfect for your situation. If at some point, you want to do floats, your kids might be at an age where they want nothing to do with adults, or airplanes. So, at that point, trade the "big" airplane for something smaller that's capable of being floated.

There are lots of Cherokee Sixes out there, many of whom have been well used, and thus reasonably priced. They are serious load haulers. Don't forget that, even if you can stuff all those souls into a 182, to actually DO anything with the airplane, you're also going to have to carry something more than a toothbrush for each occupant. And, in fact, younger children require more of a support system than do a bit older ones.

I would be VERY skeptical of carrying five people in what was essentially designed as a four seat airplane. Even with an STC to make it legal.

With the 205 and the Six you don't have to worry about those issues....load em up and go. The Six was equipped with a couple of bullet proof engines as well.

The good news is, both those airplanes can be had cheaper than a "Decent" Cessna 180.

MTV

I have 3 young kids and wanted a TW airplane that would seat us all. Realistic options were a Maule 7 and a Cessna C180H or later. I determined that for me a C180H was the better option but I couldn't make the budget work for either so I build a Bearhawk.

Here's a thread about the 3rd row in a C180. https://backcountrypilot.org/forum/180-185-with-third-row-11073

Thank you

Might be worth thinking about buying something simpler/smaller like a 172 and fly it for a year or two while you figure out the ownership piece. I know it doesn't meet all of your objectives, but going from nothing to a Cherokee 6 or a 205 is a big leap.

I’ve been down this road, with a three row 180.

The third row is useful for a few years, say ages 5 or 6(you have to consider egress) through 12. I only have two kids, so the baggage compartment was still useable with the whole family on board.

I found the third row was used mostly for taking 4 or 5 kids over to the next lake, nearest airport for lunch, farmer Gary’s on skis. I landed at a lake just over the hill from ours once with a plane full; told them to all jump in. I’m standing on the float, boat races over “ we thought you were on fire or something, your plane landed and everyone jumped out!

Addressing other points:

Both of mine are student pilots, having soloed in a J-3. However, I’m holding off on any serious flight instruction in the 180 until they get their PPL, and a little more experience.

The rear cabin got more headroom in ‘61 I believe. But the third row windows didn’t come til ‘64? So in our ‘62 we have headroom(also nice for the second row), but no rear windows.

And yes, this all happens very fast. We went from this:



To this, in a blink of the eye.

Since you’re an A&P, you might as well consider a 195. They have 5 seats and can be flown from floats.

FWIW, 180’s were 4 place until 64ish and, as was already pointed out, all 182’s are 4 place. My vote would be the suggested 205 or Cherokee six option. The kids will still fit as they grow. Keep us posted!

YA a 172 not a bad idea, might be best to get my feet wet before I take the plunge, the stc for adding a 3rd seat belt in the back seat of 180,182 & 170 would work for a few years but like you say it goes fast it already has seems like my 7 y/o was born yesterday. thank you everyone for the advice will keep you posted!

John wrote: it already has seems like my 7 y/o was born yesterday.

You must have a good wife. I feel like I've had toddlers for 20 years.

Zzz wrote:

John wrote: it already has seems like my 7 y/o was born yesterday.

You must have a good wife. I feel like I've had toddlers for 20 years.

Ouch...I hope your wife doesn't see that!

whee wrote:...3 young kids and wanted a TW airplane that would seat us all. Realistic options were a Maule 7 and a Cessna C180H or later. I determined that for me a C180H was the better option but I couldn't make the budget work for either so I build a Bearhawk…..

Curious just how much money you had into the Bearhawk by the time you completed it,
not counting all your time, vs buying a ready-to-fly 180 or Maule.

Putting three kids in a 182 isn't a long term solution.

I've got a 205, a wife and two kids. It's perfect. Remove the back two seats, and we can now pack whatever my wife wants. We are never at gross. It's comfortable, fast enough, and somewhat affordable.

They aren't a secret anymore. I'm on the Facebook 205 group, and we frequently get posts looking for planes, and occasionally letters in the mail asking. Prices seems to run from 60-100K. Any more than that, and you are close to 206 territory.

It does cost substantially more than the 180HP 172 I had before it. The insurance is double (six seats and twice the hull value) annuals are slightly more, and fuel burn is more on average. It isn't as fun to fly as the 172, but way more useful. The only other airplane that would meet our needs is the Cherokee Six. I prefer the 205, as it has front doors on both sides, easier fuel management, and I like the shade from the wing.

You might see about a partnership in your area. The number of flights I take with more than two seats full is probably 30% of the total. Sometimes I'd rather be a partner in two planes than own the one...

Whelp, the bad news is, you're gonna need to sell one of the kids if you're going to seriously entertain GA as a lifestyle with your family.

The good news is, the economy is still pretty strong, so kids are getting a reasonable price. During recessions you frequently have to pay someone to take them off your hands.