Starting to look at a couple 180s and long rang fuel is high on my shopping list after several years of standard range tanks and packing gas. There are some nice mid model Cessna 180s with standard 65 gallons and I'm wondering if they are deal killers or is it as easy as new long range (44gallon) bladders to convert to long range tanks? Talking G, H, models? Not that 600 miles isn't good, but having the option for more is what I'm interested in. Not interested in tip tanks. Anyone done this? Greg

Monarch used to have an option. You had to pull the wings and insert hard plastic tanks and then reinstall. It was a well liked modification, but I'm not sure about availability now. Ther must have been a rib modification also because they inserted further into the wing than the bladders to achieve the greater capacity.

Just happen to have a c-180 drawing out for another question:
Somebodies PDF version section 13-10 Dwg. states it is for 180 - 182 - 185:
No year or serial #s readily avail this dwg.

"Standard" tank looks like a c-175 format where a narrower forward section extends out one more rib from early 170/2 series with square tanks.

Long Range tank looks like it goes past a bell-crank area and on out one more rib.

Wiki records show Long Range showing up on K model in 79.

Do not know if the same maint. manual speaks to fuel bladders.

Best I can do with what I got:

Should be ripe for an STC if one does not exist.
Might call another Chris at Del Air just in case.

Having personally installed the Del Air LONG range tanks in my 170, (back when I owned it), I know there is a fair amount of additional structural "boxing in" around the bell crank mechanism.

Chris C

Monarchs or flint tips.
Monarchs way cheaper.
Probably lots of info online re monarchs. Plenty of local Cessna guys have done them. Can get a handle on install prices with a couple calls. It's not cheap.

No not as easy as putting in big bladders. The wing is built different.

Good luck. Buying one with long range wings is the easiest solution

Im going through this now with my 59' B model. The best option I have found seems to be the solution monarch is offering. They modify your existing bladder (or sell you new ones) and add additional nipples on the outboard side. Then you get a pair of 18 gallon plastic tanks to put in the next bay and they plumb directly into your bladder. Ultimately you end up with an additional 18 gallons per side with no extra pumps or valves. All in I believe it was around $5500-$6000 for everything including new bladders. I plan on getting this ordered in the next few weeks.

AK-HUNT wrote:Monarchs or flint tips.
Monarchs way cheaper.
Probably lots of info online re monarchs. Plenty of local Cessna guys have done them. Can get a handle on install prices with a couple calls. It's not cheap.

No not as easy as putting in big bladders. The wing is built different.

Good luck. Buying one with long range wings is the easiest solution

Thanks, that's kind of what I thought but....the 'G' that's for sale in Big lake is what made me start wondering.

Alaskabound wrote:Im going through this now with my 59' B model. The best option I have found seems to be the solution monarch is offering. They modify your existing bladder (or sell you new ones) and add additional nipples on the outboard side. Then you get a pair of 18 gallon plastic tanks to put in the next bay and they plumb directly into your bladder. Ultimately you end up with an additional 18 gallons per side with no extra pumps or valves. All in I believe it was around $5500-$6000 for everything including new bladders. I plan on getting this ordered in the next few weeks.

That's good there is a solution. Keep us posted on install if you wouldn't mind. So with this are you going to wind up with 88?

I have a 185 with standard tanks plus the Monarch. Although I have only had the plane only 6 months I like the aux tanks very much.
Mine have individual transfer pumps for wach tank to feed its respective main. There is a round control panel that fits into a standard 3 1/8 hole.
Tom

I run 65 gallon tanks in my H model. That gives me 5 hours plus VFR reserves. I never want to fly longer legs than that. I carry Airframes Alaska fuel bags when I'm away from fuel for multiple long legs. I've heard from a very experienced mechanic that it is not even really feasible to convert 65 gallon wings to long range wings. You essentially need to rebuild the entire wing structure. Most of the 180s that I see on the market have standard fuel. Good luck in the search.

I've looked at Flint tanks for my P172D. They're also available for 180s, 185s, 206s, etc. They're internal 12 gallon tanks installed outboard of the standard tanks, for a total of 24 gallons (23 usable), and they use pumps to transfer fuel from the Flints to the mains. My IA has installed some, and he says that it's a bit labor intensive (Flint says 40 hours typical), but not a difficult installation. https://flintaero.com/

An option from Flint for 185s but not 180s is external tanks which extend the wings--a little more fuel and a gross weight increase.

There are other threads on this issue here at BCP, discussing both Del Aire and Monarch tanks.

Cary

I installed Monarch Aux and Mains about 17 years ago. My 180J had std tanks that made after hours round-trips difficult. (there were not as many self serve pumps back then). I have 97 gal. now and the ability to buy cheap gas and tanker it has paid for the Monrachs several times. I tried to buy a set of 84 gal wings from salvage but they were much more expensive than the mod at the time.
That being said I would probably go with the Flints. The install is much easier. The Monarch aux tank install is major wing surgery.

Mudwagon wrote:I installed Monarch Aux and Mains about 17 years ago. My 180J had std tanks that made after hours round-trips difficult. (there were not as many self serve pumps back then). I have 97 gal. now and the ability to buy cheap gas and tanker it has paid for the Monrachs several times. I tried to buy a set of 84 gal wings from salvage but they were much more expensive than the mod at the time.
That being said I would probably go with the Flints. The install is much easier. The Monarch aux tank install is major wing surgery.

Do you remember off hand what the total weight of the Aux tanks were? The flints are around 20 or so I think right?

roamak wrote:

Mudwagon wrote:I installed Monarch Aux and Mains about 17 years ago. My 180J had std tanks that made after hours round-trips difficult. (there were not as many self serve pumps back then). I have 97 gal. now and the ability to buy cheap gas and tanker it has paid for the Monrachs several times. I tried to buy a set of 84 gal wings from salvage but they were much more expensive than the mod at the time.
That being said I would probably go with the Flints. The install is much easier. The Monarch aux tank install is major wing surgery.

Do you remember off hand what the total weight of the Aux tanks were? The flints are around 20 or so I think right?

Flint says 24# (tanks, pumps, hardware).

Cary

Just got off the phone with Hartwig, they sell monarchs now, sounds like net weight gain retaining the standard bladders and modifying them to plumb into the new polyurethane plastic sux tanks pictured above is about 40 pounds. This about 20 pounds heavier than factory extended range tanks. A complete monarch tank setup, mains and aux, bumps that up a bit more.

Some pros to monarchs: these plastic tanks are as close to a "lifetime" tank as you're going to find, plus, no wrinkles! There is no longer pumps involved with the monarch setup.

Cons: serious surgery involving the wings. Pretty serious money involved too, about 7k in parts going with the bladder sux combo, 8k for all 4 tanks in plastic.

For the record I've installed monarchs in 2 Cessna and really like the product, very robust.

Bear in mind that with the Monarch plastic tanks replacing the mains you lose some significant capacity in the mains.

I'd take a good look at the "legacy" Flint slide in tanks: https://flintaero.com/kits/internal-tip-tanks/165-2/

I ran a set for almost 20 years in my 170 with a 180 engine, and they work fine. Only replaced one pump in all that time, and that was found at annual.

Twenty three gallons extra, and leave me empty when not needed. Much simpler installation than the Monarchs, though they do require pumps.

The Monarch aux tanks may fill a bit slowly as well, depending on the gpm of the fuel facility.

Money-wise, I suspect the Flints would be cheaper, based mostly on installation cost.

MTV

The Monarch mains are 35# less 13# bladder removal = +22# for both and hold 61gal total.
Aux tanks are 24.7# for both and hold 36.2g total. No need for pumps.
If you can do the work yourself it may be worth it but otherwise it's gonna be $$$$.
The drawings and instructions were marginal and the IA and I were on the phone to the guy at Monarch a lot. Of course the second wing took less than half as long as the first which means if you're not doing it or your shop hasn't done a few, you're paying for a lot of staring at parts and drawings and head scratching.
It's great to have 7+ hours of fuel though!

Mudwagon wrote:The Monarch mains are 35# less 13# bladder removal = +22# for both and hold 61gal total.
Aux tanks are 24.7# for both and hold 36.2g total. No need for pumps.
If you can do the work yourself it may be worth it but otherwise it's gonna be $$$$.
The drawings and instructions were marginal and the IA and I were on the phone to the guy at Monarch a lot. Of course the second wing took less than half as long as the first which means if you're not doing it or your shop hasn't done a few, you're paying for a lot of staring at parts and drawings and head scratching.
It's great to have 7+ hours of fuel though!

And now you're gonna be calling Hartwig for that info.

MTV

Mudwagon wrote:The Monarch mains are 35# less 13# bladder removal = +22# for both and hold 61gal total.
Aux tanks are 24.7# for both and hold 36.2g total. No need for pumps.
If you can do the work yourself it may be worth it but otherwise it's gonna be $$$$.
The drawings and instructions were marginal and the IA and I were on the phone to the guy at Monarch a lot. Of course the second wing took less than half as long as the first which means if you're not doing it or your shop hasn't done a few, you're paying for a lot of staring at parts and drawings and head scratching.
It's great to have 7+ hours of fuel though!

Thanks for the weights. 7+ hrs of fuel is what I'm after. As Mike says tip tanks are probably the best bet for something that already has wingx extensions. Has anyone run a belly pod with fuel plumbed in on a C180? Not that I would go this route just wondering.....

Now if I just had a 7 hour bladder!

Cary

Cary wrote:Now if I just had a 7 hour bladder!

Cary

Right!