Hey everyone,

I sent this to AOPA to see what they say and thought I'd pose it here as well since there are some smart fellas here. Let's see what you think. I guess technically it isn't a medical question, but a currency question as I originally stated in the message to AOPA.

Thanks,
GSP

Hi,

I have a question for you regarding medicals for CFIs. I read the article below and understand what it says. But I have a specific scenario to ask you about.

http://www.aopa.org/asf//publications/i ... ticle=4674


I'm a CFI who is also on the Board of Directors of a flying club. One of our CFIs maintains a 3rd class medical. So here is my question: If that CFI is called by one of our club members to get him current (this member has no flight time in the last 90 days), can he do it with only a 3rd class medical? Where the member requiring the instruction is not current and can not carry passengers, does that make the instructor a required crew member? What if both the CFI and the club member have not flown in the last 90 days?

I know that Mrs. Yodice wrote a Legal Briefing regarding night currency and how the instructor was not considered a passenger, thus both the student and the instructor could be out of night currency and still make the training flight...with only that person actually performing the landings being able to claim currency thereafter. Does this hold true for day time as well?

http://www.aopa.org/members/ftmag/artic ... ticle=5994

Any insight you can shed on this would be helpful.

I was told a class III medical is fine for excercising my CFI-I authority.
The CFI is the PIC at that point. Especially since the other pilot is not current.
After three landings and takeoffs and other currency requirements... I think they can both begin logging PIC time.
I know this has been hard for pilots to get their head around. But, actively instructing allows both the CFI and the left seater to be PIC.
Required crew member language is sort of semantic under the conditions described. The CFI has to be current before this all happens.
Somebody out there shout.... if I have mis read the regs.

flightlogic wrote:I was told a class III medical is fine for excercising my CFI-I authority.
The CFI is the PIC at that point. Especially since the other pilot is not current.
After three landings and takeoffs and other currency requirements... I think they can both begin logging PIC time.
I know this has been hard for pilots to get their head around. But, actively instructing allows both the CFI and the left seater to be PIC.
Required crew member language is sort of semantic under the conditions described. The CFI has to be current before this all happens.
Somebody out there shout.... if I have mis read the regs.

All that is spelled out in the first article. I mistakenly implied that it was a medical question, when actually it is a currency question. What I highlighted in red I think is the key part of the question. If both aren't current, I'd say that they can't fly. But, if you read the second article, if neither the CFI or the person receiving the instruction aren't night current, they can both go fly because the instructor isn't considered a passenger by the FAA. If this applies to day as well, then they both could go out and fly...with only the person making the landings regaining proficiency (as it is in night).

You can see why I am seeking clarification! Where's our local Fed? Please weigh in on this .

This applies to day operations as well as night. In this case, where dual flight instruction is being given, neither the "student" nor the instructor are "passengers" by definition. They are both "required crewmembers", and so the rule that requires one to have completed three landings and takeoffs in the last 90 days in category and class BEFORE CARRYING PASSENGERS does not apply here. No passengers. So, the "student" can perform three landings and takeoffs, then the instructor can perform three landings and takeoffs, and they are now both current to carry "passengers".

Same logic applies to someone who is practicing instrument flight under simulated conditions (under a hood), with another pilot serving as the safety pilot. That safety pilot is a "required crewmember" and thus, even though they never touch the controls, that safety pilot must possess at least a third class medical certificate. This is because they are a "required crewmember" and required crewmembers are required to possess an appropriate medical.

Finally, another one that's often confused: If I am giving dual instruction in a tailwheel airplane to someone who holds a Private Pilot certificate but has not been endorsed for operation of a tailwheel aircraft, the "student" in this case, may log the flight time when they are the sole manipulator of the controls as PIC time, even though that person could not legally fly that airplane solo. The logic here, again from a Chief Counsel's opinion, is that the regulation regarding logging PIC says that you may log PIC time for all time that you were the sole manipulator of the controls of an airplane for which you are RATED. The "for which you are rated" part relates to PPL, Single Engine Land, ie: category and class. Tailwheel endorsements (and high performance endorsements, complex endorsements, high altitude endorsements) are NOT ratings, and thus a person can log this time as PIC, even though they could not legally SERVE as PIC in solo flight.

Confused yet?

MTV

So...can a Cfi without a tail wheel endorsement sign you off for the Cfi exam? I do understand they can train you (i think) but can they sign you off when all flight training is done and they feel your ready for the exam? I believe the Cfi needs the endorsement first correct?

Thanks Mtv. I had a feeling that they used the same logic for day that they do for night, but had never heard or read it. The other scenerios, and more, the first article talked about and explained them pretty well too. We just wanted to make sure that our bases were being covered from an insurance point if view in the event we ever have a mishap.

Thanks again!

aktahoe1 wrote:So...can a Cfi without a tail wheel endorsement sign you off for the Cfi exam? I do understand they can train you (i think) but can they sign you off when all flight training is done and they feel your ready for the exam? I believe the Cfi needs the endorsement first correct?

If a CFI is giving flight instruction, he or she must be legal to operate the airplane as PIC. So, to flight instruct Ina single engine taildragger, a CFI would need a commercial cert, with single engine land privileges, a tail wheel endorsement OR have served as PIC in a tail wheel airplane before the endorsement was required, a valid CFI with single engine privileges, and a third class medical, unless the "student" is fully qualified and current to serve as PIC inthe plane, in which case the instructor wouldn't need a medical, but could not log the time as PIC.

MTV