My son spent a year of his regular Army time babysitting and troubleshooting a computer program at various forts around the country. So I asked him if troubles I have had with my computer could show up in glass cockpits. He said that real time rather than net time, and aircraft redundancy made them more reliable. He said because radio instrument packages still do far less than my phone and don't require internet connection, they perform faster and can be depended on.

I quit teaching instrument when I had to have the student find frequencies and approaches on the one box does everything Garmin. I am old and expect each radio and each instrument to do one thing well and have a large control knob. Am I correct in thinking my son's Super Mario game time made finding one of many instrument approaches and radio frequencies on a computer instrument/radio box so easy?

There is a good article, "In Praise of Analog Gauges," in the March issue of Plane and Pilot. Why have we abandoned the calibrated eyeball?

Computers are categorized as a tool. Tools can hurt you or tools can help you. “Trust no one or one thing”. Analog is still a valuable plan B in the cockpit.

I am not a fan of digital games. I prefer to make money with computers!

-0-

I love this topic because it hits home. I work in the fire service in a large urban area and over the past 10 years have transitioned from old school maps and paper technology to iPads and computers. For almost 10 years we have kept the maps on the walls and maps on the engines “just in case” or for “when the technology fails.” Soo much skepticism and fear about the computers failing. But after 10 years, we are finally purging the map books and paper tech because the technology works 99.9% of the time. And the built in redundancy is there just in case the main technology fails. Is there a chance that catastrophic failure of the system will happen from a disaster, emp, or solar flare??? Absolutely. But the odds are in our favor that it won’t. The technology nay sayers here in my line of work keep waiting for it to happen, and the longer they wait, the more they miss out on using the technology that works.

I am very very new to aviation, and my very limited experience is this... my first and only flight in my plane that I just purchased; the AI and the DG and the VOR radio all failed. But the iPad worked flawlessly. As did the backup I phone. As I continue in my aviation “career,” I will learn how to use the “classic” systems for the times when I must use them, knowing that they can fail. I will make sure to remember that anything can fail, technology or not. I think for what ever you choose, as long as you have a backup, and maybe a back up to the backup, and are proficient in the use of the back up, you will be a safe and successful pilot. For the majority of my flying, I will choose to rely on my computer driven systems because they seldom fail. And if they do, I will have backups. And should those fail, I will have a handheld radio with nav capability and a map and compass, and will make sure I commit to being proficient enough in the use of these backups to get me on the ground safe.

Covering most of the country in 17,000 hours, I have found many interesting things because they were on the sectional. I have never used an iPad. Does it point out interesting things like monuments, craters, calderas, historic structure, and such?

If they’re on a printed sectional, then they’re on the sectional view on all the flight apps. With the added benefits of no folding and you can zoom in.

It does! I guess depending on what program you use, but most should have the latest VFR sectionals, as well as access to satellite imagery, road maps, and other layers that can add to situational awareness. I have made a flight planning checklist that I use when flight planning with foreflight, and one of the checklist items is to use satellite imagery to scope out the new or unfamiliar airport I am flying into or out of and pre-planning emergency landing sites for when my engine fails after takeoff. That way I know ahead of time where I am going and don’t have to try to figure it out when my engine fails at 300’. It will be pre-programmed and planned for on my pre-takeoff checklist.

-0-

And you can do cool thing like adding your own maps. They work just like the built in ones.

"But the iPad worked flawlessly. As did the backup I phone. ...". I fly with iphone & ipad too. However, both devices are very sensitive to temperature. I've seen several of both check out mid flight when operators failed to monitor their exposure to direct sun on hot summer days. I keep paper within reach for the non zero chance if becomes when for me.

Yup, we experienced the iPad over heating issues when we first got iPads on the fire engines. But once we knew it was an issue, we just mounted them in a location that was not in direct sun and the problem was solved, even on 100 degree days. You just have to know your equipment’s limitations and you can reduce the risk of failure.

https://youtu.be/Rc2k6G8LuqY


Processors can think in nanoseconds and also react in the same amount of time
I work in an automated water plant
Flows, chemical dosage , turbidity are all watched and adjusted in real time

We won’t even discuss surgeries on the human brain done with robotics

I can see the faster dynamic proactive control movement of the processor, but there has to be some communication and decision-making with the moving ship, the moving procedural track. I can see decision-making being pre planned but my human lack of orientation that way plus the fluidity of the tactical situation seemed to meet in the middle on that. My brother worked on the old Harm missile that could choose an alternate target and had electronic plumbing because wires were too slow, but humans occasionally had to kill it for making bad choices.

Again, I know it is happening. How well does bot handle everything going south? Will bot's daddy pre think everything? The human brain is very flexible. Will bot get the broken wing award?

I pose this more as a question and less as opinion. Correct me if I am wrong, but is the main fear with committing to using iPads and other electronic navigational (gps) devices that should they fail, one would be lost in the sky? Would one really be lost if GPS went down? I wouldn’t think so. I think that if something like that happened, any one of us would be able to find our way home if near our local airport, or find our way to our destination or some alternative, using one of many tools such as a compass, dead reckoning and familiarity with the area, a sectional chart, ATC providing vectors, etc... I would certainly hope I am well trained enough to do so. And with that knowledge, and the understanding of the correct use and limitations of my electronics, and the reliability that they do have when used properly and backed up, I think that committing to using them makes for a safer pilot, a more informed pilot, and a better equipped pilot.

I would like to pose an additional question. How much back up is truly needed? As it stands now, for longer cross country flight I have planned on printing out a nav log and frequency list for the “just in case.” Is that overkill? For those that don’t trust the reliability of electronic nav, I’m sure it’s not overkill. For those that completely trust it, overkill for sure. What is the middle ground? A sectional chart seems like it provides enough info. Can I get by with just a sectional, a backup radio, and the dead reckoning, compass, and ATC that I mentioned above? For those that have had to navigate after equipment failure, either gps or traditional nav, what worked best? What would have been nice to have? For those in carbon cubs and other planes with nothing but a glass cockpit, what do you have planned for a “just in case” event?

I totally agree any pilot should be able to get home VMC with zero electronics including battery powered.. I know there is redundancy in all glass IMC, I just don't understand it. IMC requires complete confidence in the instruments so the choice is a great deal of study and practice or not do it.

Contact flying has nothing to do with instruments and electronics. I see that use of paper or ipad charts and maps makes no difference. The new stuff looks very impressive.

FFSchooley wrote:A sectional chart seems like it provides enough info. Can I get by with just a sectional, a backup radio, and the dead reckoning, compass, and ATC that I mentioned above? For those that have had to navigate after equipment failure, either gps or traditional nav, what worked best? What would have been nice to have? For those in carbon cubs and other planes with nothing but a glass cockpit, what do you have planned for a “just in case” event?

Both my tablet and my phone have the ability to store and view sectional charts independently, so there's a primary with a redundant backup. I also have a Garmin GPS495 mounted on my dash, so that's a 2nd backup. All three have airport info, frequencies, etc.

If I lose electrical power, I'll operate NORDO to the nearest airfield and land. If I've lost power, there might be a good reason to get on the ground and check it out as soon as possible.

There was one cross-country I was on where my alternator was failing. I checked it out and it was just the alternator with no other electrical issues, so I continued the trip with the master switch off until I needed to use the radio. My tablet and phone both have their own batteries, so I had my primary and alternate navigation source.

That's just one example, but ymmv

High altitude, Cam, no pressure. But compare the mission specific interface of a weapons system, or a well folded grid reference map, to do everything computers at NOE. One pipeline patrol company I worked for was too cheap to have the old pilot show you a new to you line. We were gives a laptop with a cookie crumb trail flown by the last pilot. Almost useless and computer in those days needed to stay connected to the cigarette lighter plug. Shaken or pulled out often. I just hammered the new line out milepole to milepole with a paper pipeline map. I needed to know where the pipeline was, not where the old pilot flew.

My computer nerd son sent me a good article on why human error takes more hits in the computer age.

https://theagileadmin.com/2019/09/05/wh ... -is-wrong/

CamTom12 wrote:If they’re on a printed sectional, then they’re on the sectional view on all the flight apps....

The opposite is not true however. I would never fly by a sectional, digital copy or otherwise. Their content is outdate by years.

Case in point, my airport is coming on THREE YEARS being registered with the FAA. Back in 2017. Within a month of registration it showed up in both Garmin Pilot's and Foreflight's aero maps. But it has never appeared on a sectional- digital or paper. Think about that next time you pull out a paper or digital sectional- what else is missing?

Sectionals can be used in leu of toilet paper however during this China Virus- so they do still have a purpose. Try wiping your ass with an iPad.

With paper sectionals we learned to never trust manmade features. All had to be confirmed against natural features. With computer images, what is the percentage of manmade information that cannot be confirmed by looking at the world that exists in space and time.

Nothing wrong with the extra information. We just should default toward the verifiable. Three verifiable natural features make my heart glad.

As my son's article says, don't worry about error. If enough complain, there will be a patch.