1SeventyZ wrote:I just jeep asking myself what would allow me to land on those crazy Ohio Bush Planes airstrips and still make it to Johnson Creek.

An Agusta 109?

It's all about compromise. Super Cub, Highlander, Rans, all do a good job on the little strips, fields and sand bars. You pay the price when you want to travel a longer distance, or trying to get/stay ahead of bad weather.
Multiple planes would be a nice option if you could afford it.

I've been doing a bit of flying in a Callair A9 with the flaperions they are great for STOL, not the biggest fan of them in x-winds, typically I just do a 2pt with 0 flaps in that situation. Nice feature though

Is this a case of sailplanes being ahead of power? The flaperons on my Schleicher ASH26E follow the ailerons until one goes to "landing flap positon 4" (about 30 degrees positive flap). At landing flaps the ailerons reflex up (negative flap position) for better roll control at low speed.

bumper

mountainmatt wrote:

1SeventyZ wrote:I just jeep asking myself what would allow me to land on those crazy Ohio Bush Planes airstrips and still make it to Johnson Creek.

An Agusta 109?

Heh heh. I had to Google that.

Back on topic... does one operate flaperons exactly as they would conventional flaps? Someone above mentioned that they main increase control authority at lower speeds, but don't introduce as much drag as a normal flap. Will they allow me to pop off the ground earlier like I do when I ease on 20 deg flaps in my 170? I don't see why not, but I guess I'm looking for someone to bring up something bad like that.

Darinh-- Do you still have your SS7? If not, why did you get rid of it?

On my kitfox IV I grab a hand full to pop off the ground, and it works rather nice. The full flap doesn't really cause a lot of drag, but does increase lift to allow you to lower your stall speed. As far as roll authority, it is reduced at full flap and the roll rate is closer to a cub or taylorcraft, than the much faster rate without the flaps deployed.

hotrod150 wrote:

Hafast wrote:

Flaperons are used on the worlds safest (so they say) aircraft....the helio courier.

Really?...........one of my best friends has one..........no flaperons on it.

I don't think the Helio has flaperon either. Some have spoilers in addition to the ailerons.
I think the Twin Otter system described may be aileron rigged to droop with the flaps, like a Robertson STOL kit for a Cessna.

The Helio has big Fowler flaps and interceptors that come out of the top of the wing. It's only dangerous when taxiing.

I guess I forgot about this on my first post here. The helio courier DOES NOT have flaperons, the early helioplanes DID have them. The helioplanes were father's of the courier. The first one, helioplane 1 was a modified piper vagabond with a 85hp motor with a v belt reduction driving a 108 inch fixed pitch prop ( had low prop clearance 7.5 inches). Helioplane four was a prototype Helio courier H-391B.

Zane,

No, unfortunately I don't have it anymore. I had a blast flying it but I have 4 boys and needed more room for those camping trips so I am currently finishing up an Avipro Bearhawk. I really wish I could afford 2 airplanes because I would have loved to keep it. I ended up selling it to a guy in Mexico and he converted it to a nosedragger which is not the way a Kitfox was meant to be flown IMHO. I added a couple of pics of it in my gallery.

I love the Kitfox, flaperons and all and when the kids leave the roost, will probably buy another.

I know the R is R-STOL stands for Robertson, but what does the C in CSTOL stand for?

Cessna??

CSTOL = controlled short takeoff and landing.
GJ

Soup Campbell wrote:CSTOL = controlled short takeoff and landing.
GJ

I wold hope that goes without saying. What's the alternative-- out-of-control STOL? (I've seen some of that- including at last years NW supercub fly-in)

Helios are the only plane certified as a cstol aircraft. They have four leading edge slats that will automatically will deploy at an attack angle of about 12 deg. and at speeds of 55-60mph. The slats make the helio unable to stall and spin and with the slats deployed they add about .33 more area to the wing. Helios are able to fly safely at 28 knots and maintain altitude and be able to have full control over the plane. The roll control is helped at low speeds by roll spoilers called interrupters.

Reuben

The slats make the helio unable to stall and spin

Isn't this about like saying the Helio cannot crash? Pretty sure any plane will stall given the correct set of circumstances. Seems to me you need to qualify this statement by saying, as you eluded to later in your post, that above 28 knots, the Helio will not stall. Having said this, isn't stall more a function of angle of attack, relative wind, loading, air density and several other factors not simply airspeed? I am pretty sure the Helio won't fly below a certain speed and can't hover so it indeed will stall regardless of the leading edge slats if you get too slow or too steep. It may not enter a spin but it will stall, right?

I think the Helio is an awesome airplane and it will do some pretty amazing things with the right pilot but it won't defy the laws of gravity.

The Helio definitely stalls, you just dont notice it. You will fly right through it before you notice it. Our entire family has used these in Alaska for generations. If you around lake hood they are all (4 of them) over on the west corner behind the air museum. One of the old ones belonged to Lowell Thomas.

Hey Darin,
Are you still in your same hangar in Ogden? John & I are now at the far north ramp between the Forest Service and the Sky Divers.

Well don't get me wrong I AM NO helio expert, but do know a little about them. I was told that they will mush down after you get so slow at very high rates of decent. But you learn something every day!

aktoheo1 What do you mean by fly right through the stalls ?

Reuben

It will buffet....

I can remember flying it slow and asking when it was going to stall and my uncle saying " you just flew through 2 of them" as he was laughing.

I did have a little bit of tail wheel prior to the 180 I just bought, but it was a long time ago.

The Helio is an awesome airplane. I spent more time getting flown around in one than actually flying. My time in it flying was generally straight and level to and from a place and then handing over the controls. As for the stall and slow flight in the plane, I just remember the buffeting feel and still wondering when it would actually give....Hence the, "you just flew two of them"

Oh I see now ! I guess you can say it is a plane that will stall and won't stall. aktohoe1 send all your folks that fly helios over to FlyHelio.com it is pretty good site.

Reuben