Although this isn't about flying ( there is one plane in it), its a pretty cool video of playing in the outdoors.

Spectacular scenery and incredible acts of either amazing skill, or deep stupidity, depending on the skill level of the participants.

That company has great customer service

denalipilot wrote:That company has great customer service

Backcountry.com is an awesome company, and that was an awesome video.

I'm still torn though on supporting REI, given their support of organizations that would lobby against airplane access. I'm not sure if backcountry.com supports the same.

Zane,

They'll all support airplane access when it's the only way to get where they want to be....

MTV

Zzz wrote:

denalipilot wrote:That company has great customer service

Backcountry.com is an awesome company, and that was an awesome video.

I'm still torn though on supporting REI, given their support of organizations that would lobby against airplane access. I'm not sure if backcountry.com supports the same.

Which organizations do that lobbying?

Green Party, Sierra Club, Nature Conservancy, NWF, etc. Just about any NIMBY organization you can name. Oh yes, BO appointed Sally Jewel of REI as Secretary of Interior.

We outta get some miles out if this one!

gbflyer wrote:Green Party, Sierra Club, Nature Conservancy, NWF, etc. Just about any NIMBY organization you can name. Oh yes, BO appointed Sally Jewel of REI as Secretary of Interior.

We outta get some miles out if this one!

I would greatly appreciate citations for any of the above. I'm a longtime REI member and would like to write a letter including any of those that can be documented. I just googled and couldn't come up with anything immediately showing opposition to airstrips.

rw2 wrote:

gbflyer wrote:Green Party, Sierra Club, Nature Conservancy, NWF, etc. Just about any NIMBY organization you can name. Oh yes, BO appointed Sally Jewel of REI as Secretary of Interior.

We outta get some miles out if this one!

I would greatly appreciate citations for any of the above. I'm a longtime REI member and would like to write a letter including any of those that can be documented. I just googled and couldn't come up with anything immediately showing opposition to airstrips.

Here's a letter directly from the Sierra Club of Oregon opposing floatplanes on Waldo lake. REI purportedly supports the Sierra Club. Searching today, I can longer find any definitive information about it. Anyone?

I met a REI corporate employee a few years ago at a tech conference, and expressed my concern about this very thing. His reply was something along the lines of [the greater good outweighs the collateral damage]. In my opinion, the collateral damage is the right of aircraft to use public lands. I was not pleased and am still torn about it, as I have long been a REI member and it's extremely convenient because it's just a few miles from my house.

I support reasonable conservation efforts, but the buck stops with airplanes. Wilderness designation is a a bit heavy handed as well. When you can't take a small sailboat into the Boundary Waters, that just seems wrong. I donate to our aviation lobbies with BCP profits that exceed our costs (when they happen) but I'm afraid it's pissing into the wind. A guy could get high blood pressure trying to worry about what corporations to buy from based on these things.

Really rw2? I Googled "sierra club fights airport" and "rei sierra club supporter" and got plenty of hits back. Don't know for sure what's true and what ain't. It's Al Gore's Internet after all.

gbflyer wrote:Really rw2? I Googled "sierra club fights airport" and "rei sierra club supporter" and got plenty of hits back. Don't know for sure what's true and what ain't. It's Al Gore's Internet after all.

I did too. There are a ton of offroad and dirtbike forums and stuff (communities similar to us) that have threads about it, but it's all hearsay as far as I can tell. I can't find anything concrete from REI or the Sierra Club. I just want the truth.

The biggest threat REI poses to backcountry aviation is having one of their camp chairs flung your direction by someone's prop blast at the next fly-in.

Zzz wrote:

rw2 wrote:

gbflyer wrote:Green Party, Sierra Club, Nature Conservancy, NWF, etc. Just about any NIMBY organization you can name. Oh yes, BO appointed Sally Jewel of REI as Secretary of Interior.

We outta get some miles out if this one!

I would greatly appreciate citations for any of the above. I'm a longtime REI member and would like to write a letter including any of those that can be documented. I just googled and couldn't come up with anything immediately showing opposition to airstrips.

Here's a letter directly from the Sierra Club of Oregon opposing floatplanes on Waldo lake. REI purportedly supports the Sierra Club. Searching today, I can longer find any definitive information about it. Anyone?

I attatched this link to the "Sleeping Pads and Matresses" thread too a while back, but here's the list of organizations that REI supports: http://www.rei.com/stewardship/community/non-profit-partnerships-and-grants.html. The list is long and Sierra Club and ONDA are on there. For some interesting reading google "ONDA and Owahee". It's one of the latest efforts to exclusivise large areas of public land for their interests only by creating "Wilderness Study Areas" and keeping everyone else out including shutting down some pristine remote airstrips in the area. There are also incidents in which large rocks have been thrown onto some of these airstrips in order to cause damage, injury and/or prevent use and though it cannot be proven that their members are responsible for such behaviors considering the Eco-terrorist ties of the founders of the group it's hard not to consider that possibility.

I choose not to support REI.

CW

First off, you probably want to spell it right ("Owyhee" and not how I spelled it ), and second I'm no authority on the subject by any means but here's what a few minutes on google revealed (and soon much more):

Here's a previous thread: http://www.backcountrypilot.org/forum/owyhee-river-pinnacle-ranch-question-9916

There are several BLM documents regarding the WSA. The following quote came from this one :http://www.blm.gov/or/districts/vale/plans/files/Owyhee_WSR_Plan.pdf:

Issue Description: Some people have indicated a desire to land aircraft in the canyon and unauthorized landing of aircraft within the river corridors occurs. Others are concerned about the protection and enhancement of ORVs, the conflict with other users, and the impact upon resource values. The previous management plan established no airstrips or landing of aircraft on public land within the Owyhee National Wild River corridor.

This is just one area too. ONDA has been trying for years to shut down Chukar Flat airstrip. I have a work mate that lives in Clarno who has been to their meetings on the topic. Fortunately much of the strip is on private land. Hope it lasts!

CW

Zzz wrote:I did too. There are a ton of offroad and dirtbike forums and stuff (communities similar to us) that have threads about it, but it's all hearsay as far as I can tell. I can't find anything concrete from REI or the Sierra Club. I just want the truth.

+1

That's the problem I had. Lots of anger and anti-authority sentiment, nothing I could trace back to anything citable.

Unfortunately for some here, I won't be writing a letter about the water landing citation you provided. I actually am pretty concerned about invasive species, having seen what it can do in a decade to a previously pristine lake.

Someone mentioned speaking to an REI employee and getting the "needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" response. I actually kind agree with that sentiment, but think it's misplaced in this occurrence. If I ever get some citations my plan was to approach it from the angle that aviation is a softer touch on the environment than roads and ATVs, and airstrips are critical to protecting the forests during fires and for SAR when hikers go missing. I really think we have a strong case to be made if we don't allow the nature of the debate to be "I'm a hiker and don't want to listen to airplanes".

YMMV, but I don't plan to stop shopping at REI even if a thousandth of a cent of every purchase I make (and, at the end of the day, that's what we're talking about) goes to fighting back country aviation. On the whole, they are a *fantastic* company that treats it's employees well, is extremely well priced and donates money to preserve the places we all value.

I think we're a small enough community that a boycott would be unnoticed, but I would be happy to bring an envelope with the citations documented and a letter to the effect of what I wrote above. Leaving such a specimen behind every time I shop would, I think, send a more powerful message and I wouldn't have to shop somewhere that treats their employees worse.