High All,

Two of us are planning a trip across country in September flying our LSA’S. Weather permitting we would like to attend the Mid East Regional fly in, after which drop in to Green Co. and visit the Air Museum. We would than work our way to Mexico Mo. to attend Zenith Aircraft open house September 11&12 than on west with a stop at Dodge City and on to Monument Valley. Being a novice about flying beyond the Mississippi we wood like guidance at to crossing the mountains and places to stop along the way. We will be equipped for camping but use motels when ever possible. We have no plans beyond Monument Valley. Hope you guys living in the west have ideas of places of interest and preferred routs. Our interests are in aviation in general however we are open to any ideas.

Thanks Flynguy

Some specs on the aircraft being used would be nice. I assume you have no mountain flying course or checkout?

We will be using a Rans S7 and a Zenith 701. We do not have the course or the check out.

I agree with Matt..also depending on your crossing of the mtns, be aware of altitude sickness. I see you are from PA and are you aqainted with fllying at high altitudes for extended periods of time? It is good to have a flying companion. Will you be getting into the mtns of New Mexico or Colorado? We plan on making the flyin at Creede CO (alt 8600ft) Sept 27 and Monument Valley. Maybe our paths might cross.
HC

flyNguy,

The Reno Air Races are the 16th through the 20th of September and are worth the trip from anywhere to see. Much more than just the air races taking place. And not all that far from Monument Valley when you consider how far you are already traveling.

http://www.airrace.org/indexJS.php

If you make it to So Cal consider stopping in at Fallbrook Airpark in northern San Diego County. I have a guest house you could use for a couple of days while you check out the area. Lots of aviation stuff around here, the Planes of Fame Museum is a short hop up the road, Flabob Airport (EAA Chapter One) is very close-by. The San Diego Aerospace Museum is worth at least a half-day. March Air Force Base has a nice collection of old warbirds, jets, transports etc on display.

If you make it to Monument Valley consider overflying the Grand Canyon, Lake Powell etc if you have time. Read up on the airspace issues over the Grand, but the scenery is spectacular. Mark Pringle (Rocky Mountain Kitplanes) has a fly-in on September 14th-15th. He is a very active RANS dealer/builder/flyer and his place is located in central Utah. His website is:

http://www.rmkplanes.com/

North-Central California features the infamous "Weav" (S7 guru and backcountry pilot extraordinaire) , Emmits new S7S, Bill Lind's spectacular S7S and a bunch of other S7s scattered around Gold Country (Sutter Creek, Placer County etc). Those guys could definitely keep you occupied for as long as you have time to spare.

If you pass through Wyoming on your way back east, a stop in Afton Wyoming to see the Husky factory is well worth the time. If you have time, be sure to do some fly fishing up the road from Afton in Alpine/Star Valley area (Alpine Airpark, south-west of Jackson). And a stop a little further east in Douglas Wyoming to see Joel Milloway, S7 builder and modifier would be a good use of time as well. Joel has forgotten more about S7s than most builders ever know, and his modifications for the wings, wing-tips, fuel tanks and gear legs turn the S7 into a backcountry beast!

Mark

Get the Grand Canyon VFR Aeronautical Chart (GA) from your favorite charts supplier, and if you have questions about it once it arrives ask it on any GA forum and someone will be able to help you with it. Why come all that way and not overfly the canyon?

Use your phone and get prior permission to land at the private strip at Gouldings Trading Post in Monument Valley and spend the night there. If not fly down to KPGA and get a motel shuttle from the FBO. OR, you can land at U07 and either walk to or get picked up by the Bullfrog Lodge.

As for mountain flying...Sparky Imeson's webpage is still up and on there you will find a ton of free information about flying in the mountains, such as here.

Crossing points...even though I lived and flew in southern Utah and northern Arizona I never crossed in southern CO or northern NM specifically but some general concepts apply: That is monsoon country in early September and snow country in late September. Always good to get your flying over with before early afternoon to avoid both convective monsoon activity as well as density altitude issues. You can encounter both outstanding weather or really crappy conditions, often on the same day. Highways lead to passes and that is usually your route (unless they lead to tunnels )

I've flown over many passes in CO and 14k seems like a good crossing alt. On a warm day or with strong winds (ASOS/AWOS winds over 25kts should be avoided on a pass) a light plane with less than 200hp will likely struggle. Once in the mountains light chop will be very likely after 11am. But light chop can turn into Mod/Severe turbulence in the matter of seconds (CAT). More than once I've been flying along going straight and level to a knife edge decent before I could react. Plan accordingly for a noticeable headwind going West and a favorable tailwind going East 90% of the time.

I'd have to say the area West of Leadville/Buena Vista and South of Aspen is the worst area to cross in CO, go north or south of that. Most of the passes can be crossed quickly and open up to valleys on each side. Some passes have 14ers on each side and those are likely to have severe lift or sink without warning.

If it were me I'd try to cross around the NM/CO border unless you need to come farther north. It's some of the most beautiful scenery in the area and the a bit less extreme.

As others stated, pick the nicest day, start early, and climb climb climb...

The Sparky Imeson website has a lot of good info but there's really no substitution than getting out there and actually doing it (hopefully your body reacts ok).

Sounds like a fun trip. Lots of backcountry strips in UT, check out the UBCP.com for more info.

Also, Shiprock west of Farmington NM is spectacular from the air.

My wife and I have traveled from our home in FL to Moab, UT In our trusty C180. A good route for us flatlanders (some people refer to us as Floridiots) was to follow I-40 into and through NM. You'll fly right over Albuquerque. We flew VFR using Flight Following, which I highly recommend. Once through NM we turned north up to Moab. As I recall, that route allows you to fly no higher than 8,500 MSL, and mostly lower.

Since that was my first time flying out west, I scheduled some instruction/flight time with Lavar Wells. He's a well known mountain flying instructor with Red Tail Aviation in Moab. He was great, and had me feeling much more comfortable flying in the mountains. We first flew into (and landed at) Mineral Canyon, then up to Delores Point (actually in CO) and landed, then across the La Salle Mountains at 12,500 MSL before heading back to Moab. He had me fly the entire time, just giving me pointers as we went. Wow! The next morning I repeated that trip with my wife, and she loved it, too.

After spending a week in Moab, my wife and I crossed through CO at 12,500 MSL (through various mountain passes) via Montrose, Gunnison, Salida, down to Alamosa (with a side trip to Creede) and on to the Colorado Springs area, then turned north and flew up past Denver to Cheyenne and Laramie, Wyoming for a few days before heading home. We had a great time, and have since flown out to Taos, NM for a vacation. We love NM, and now own a runway lot in Timberon, NM (airstrip elevation 7,000 MSL) and have flown in and around that area, too. We plan on retiring there.

Best advice I can give is to get your flying done early in the morning, so density altitude and turbulence are at a minimum. Good luck, and have a great time. There's a lot of beauty out there.

flyNguy:

Sounds like a great trip.

I live in Alb., NM and would echo what PlaneMan said.

If your objective is to take the lowest route (not necessarily the most beautiful), head south through NM. If you are coming from Dodge City, KS, you won't have to go quite as far south as Alb. Catch I-25 going south from Colorado and NM border and follow it south and it will take you right to Santa Fe without having to get much above 9,500. From Santa Fe you can pretty much head straight west and not have to get much above 8k or 9k to Farmington, NM. From there all of SE Utah is available.

I would also echo starting out early in the morning. and being done by early afternoon. Much funner time to fly here in the SE. Something I think is always a surprise to pilots from the East is the intensity of the afternoon thermals. You can get bounced all over the desert (not a big deal, but a whole lot less fun).

In my slightly prejudiced view, the four corners area is the most amazingly beautiful and diverse area in the country. Everything from Monument Valley, Chaco Canyon, Lake Powell, Arches National Monument, Canyon Lands, Weminuche Wilderness Area, etc.

I would also echo the advice of PlaneMan on going to Redtail Aviation. If you plan on sitting down in some of the SE Utah airstrips, it would be time well spent. Look at the http://www.utahbackcountrypilots.org/ website for ideas of where to go. Also consider Galen Hanselman's book on Utah backcountry strips http://www.flyidaho.com/.

Have fun!!! If you get as far south as E98, give me a shout. I live on the airport.

Regards, Larry

Consider a northern routh, after scenic N. Dakota, flat eastern Montana gradually climbs, from Fort Peck head to Big Timber, then through the park (Yellowstone) and you are never over 8, or maybe 10 K. Just speaking from memory here.......
An S-7 and a 701??? Cool, give me a hollar and I'll show the non tourist areas!
Tom Simko

I'm planning a trip from Nevada (near Tahoe) to Texas just north of Dallas. If Telluride is open (they were tearing up the runway), I'll stop there for cheap 100LL (Airnav said less than $3.50). Okay, here's the question:

I'm looking for recommendations for either a back country strip or a small airport, either in souther CO or northern NM where I can pitch a tent under the wing or closeby. Showers would be nice but not a deal breaker. The only two I've found so far are Navajo Lake, NM and Cuba, NM (which on the sat photo looks pretty rudimentary). 500 to 600 feet is plenty.

thanks,

bumper

Another route over the Rockies, not so far North as Montana, is to follow I-80 across Wyoming. No mountains here. We live alongside I-80 in Utah, so this is best for us. I think the highest terrain is about 7500'. You can cut South at the Green River for Moab and W. Colorado.
Jim

[quote="bumper"]I'm planning a trip from Nevada (near Tahoe) to Texas just north of Dallas. If Telluride is open (they were tearing up the runway), I'll stop there for cheap 100LL (Airnav said less than $3.50). Okay, here's the question:

I'm looking for recommendations for either a back country strip or a small airport, either in souther CO or northern NM where I can pitch a tent under the wing or closeby. Showers would be nice but not a deal breaker. The only two I've found so far are Navajo Lake, NM and Cuba, NM (which on the sat photo looks pretty rudimentary). 500 to 600 feet is plenty.

thanks,

Bumper:

Don't know if it is too far north for you, but have you considered Marble Canyon. I don't believe it is on the chart, but if you log on to Colorado Pilot's Assocation (i think there were also some posts on this website), you can find info on it. You will have to write owner a letter for permission, but it is a beautiful place and worth the effort. There isn't a shower, but still worthwhile (bring you fishing pole).

Hurry though, we have already had our first dusting of snow in northern NM!!

Regards, Larry

Conchas Lake Airstrip (E87) is located in a New Mexico State Park, right next to the lake and pretty near the campground. Never flown there but spent a night once driving through.

Bumper

If you are going to be in the T-ride area, I would recommend dropping into Hubbard/Gateway, elav. 4800'. This will be warmer than a lot of the Colo. strips. Great scenery on the way. Nice BLM strip you can camp on. Great resort nearby with supplies, great restaurant, and a cool old car museum.

Hopkins/Nucla is pretty close and has fuel but you better check prices. Sometimes good, sometimes not so good. But they do have a shower in the pilots lounge. Has a dirt strip, and an asphalt one, but watch for gopher holes. If T-ride isn't open yet, Animas Air Park/Durango usually has good prices on fuel, and you can camp on that field. Don't know about showers there. But if you want to stay in Durango, you can fly over to LaPLata(don't get fuel there) and stay at my place and use my shower

And if you go to JT's Bar(Gardnerville), say high to Pam for me.

Gary

Well, we are back and settled in for the winter routine. The trip was better than good. We met and made friends at all stops and the reception we got was unbelievable. I would like to thank Mountainmatt, Highcountry, Taildown, Alaskaflyer, 88H, Courierguy, and Bill White who actually sent me a book he wrote on flying the wagon trails.

As a general aviation guy with many hours in a 172 Cessna and 180 Piper Cherokee, I quit flying 30 years ago. After working throughout the country and abroad on stadiums, the urge was to settle down and smell the roses. That was until sport pilot came along. Once flying is in your blood you cannot get rid of it. But, I did not want to go back to certified aircraft with all the hassle of physicals, airports, hangars, annuals, etc. To get back into flying again I took a private pilot ground school course and sample tests to prove to myself that I could pass and then a flight review to see if I could still handle a plane. The only plane available at the time was a 182 which I had never flown. In one hours time the rust came off and I proved to the instructor I was not a hazard to society

Owning a small farm, I looked into having a landing strip with good approaches into the dominating wind. I could only come up with 1000 feet. The local rules say you must stay 200 feet from the nearest property and 300 feet from the nearest road. This limited me to 500 feet. So, the aircraft must have a POH which states that it can handle 500 feet. Wanting an all metal airplane, the best plane to fit my needs was a Zenith CH701. After two years of pulling rivets I had what looked like something that might fly. The next question was where to do the maiden flight that had places to set down should the worst happen. I chose Kutztown because of all the Amish farms and lack of electric wires.
Sitting at the end of the runway in something you built puts all kinds of thoughts in your mind until you say ‘What the h***’ and go. After one year of working out the bugs and attending local fly-ins the question was how would this type aircraft handle cross country. So, we chose Monument Valley as our test.

Because of an oncoming storm we left the afternoon prior to our planned departure date. Dusk put us in Butler, PA for the night. Early the next morning the storm was again approaching. We arrived at Urbana, OH one day before the fly-in. This gave us time to meet the guys getting things ready. We enjoyed the fly-in very much and weather permitting will attend next year.

Sunday we departed for a short hop to Green Co. OH for laundry and showers with a next day visit to the Air Force Museum. The treatment we got at Green County from Chris working the line was outstanding – not only providing us with a car no strings attached other than fuel but tips on food and laundry facilities as well. Being a day ahead of schedule we decided to land at St. Louis Metro, rent a car and tour St. Louis. The airport mechanic dropped us at a motel on his way home from work. The next morning we tried to rent a car to no avail. So we called a cab to get back to the airport. Not only had the driver’s seven day deodorant quit a few days earlier, but, the cab broke down halfway to the airport!

We left for Mexico, MO with two of us flying the ring around St. Louis air space and one asking clearance to photograph the arch. The controllers said come on in – it was as easy as that. Arriving at Mexico, MO a day ahead of the open house gave us time for showers and laundry. Here again, Jay, the fixed base operator, gave us not only a car but a police car. The looks we got wherever we went were quite amusing. We had Roger, Zenith’s chief pilot, fly the 701 to make sure it was performing as expected. He gave us thumbs up in all respects. We attended the Zenith dinner at the Country Club and left one day before open house because of approaching weather. Fuel stop was at Emporia, KS and onto Dodge City for the night. Dodge City was uneventful. We asked the cabbie to put us close to food which he did. At the Broken Spoke Lounge we had the largest and best hamburger we ever had. The next day on to Delhart, TX for fuel and on to Santa Fe for the evening. This is when we hit our first headwinds. All through the trip storms south of us gave us 10 to 20 MPH tailwinds until now we have 30 MPH headwinds. Knowing we would not make Santa Fe with our fuel we went for Las Vegas, NM. Luck was with us. 50 to 60 MPH winds were forecast that evening and for $10 each we parked in a vacant corporate hangar. Also a Doctor who was working on his aircraft took us to the Plaza Hotel and got us rooms $20 less than the posted rate.

The Plaza Hotel made our visit to Las Vegas. The food and rooms were outstanding along with the flavor of the old west - back to the time of the gunslingers. The Plaza also provides transportation to and from the airport free of charge. The next day we are off to Farmington via Santa Fe. At Farmington we were fueled by two young girls and then off to Cal Black. On the way we visit Ship Rock and the river canyons of North Monument Valley.

Cal Black made us feel at home. We were not able to set up tents because of the constant winds and rocky terrain. He invited us to use the floor of the office. After staying a few days and flying the surrounding area Cal and his good wife prepared a send-off party with fresh baked cinnamon rolls and ice cream. You can’t beat that for hospitality.

Then it was back to Farmington for fuel and then around Santa Fe via Chaco Canyon and on to Las Vegas, NM for our 2nd visit to the Plaza Hotel which was as good as our first. The next day with good tailwinds we thought it would blow us back to Dodge City only to hit our first weather. Probing the front took us to Guymon, KS where we fueled up and checked radar. Flying south for 20 minutes and then east to Stillwater, we got around the front and continued northeast. Nightfall brought us to Lamar, MO. When announcing 5 miles out landing, a female voice came on saying she would transport us to a motel in Lamar after landing. To our surprise, you call the local police for fuel. A policeman showed up, unlocked the pumps and took only cash for fuel. The woman who answered the radio met us and said it was getting dark and she needed to fly home. She offered the keys to her car and said to park it by the hangar when we left. The next day we stayed ahead of the front hoping to make it to Green County Ohio so if we got stuck we could revisit the Air Force Museum – which we did. Again, thanks to Chris working the line for the use of a car.
After waiting a day for the storm to pass we left Green Co. only to catch up with the storm at the Ohio – West Virginia border where we put down at Monroe County, Ohio landing in winds gusting to 30k. We hid the planes behind hangars and sat it out for four hours. When the wind slowed down we were off for home being pushed at altitude by 60mph tailwinds. My ground speed at times was 158mph. Nineteen days and 4840 miles
at just about sundown we landed in the beautiful Lehigh Valley. Home sweet home.

All the planes performed flawlessly. They handled 20 mile crosswinds, 30 mile headwinds, 60 mile tailwinds and updrafts that lifted us 1500 fpm.

Flying with different cruise speeds, the S6 was the fastest, the S7 second and the 701 the slowest. There was not much more than 10 to 15 minutes difference when landing at fuel stops. In fact when the fastest was parking the slowest was entering downwind. However at full gross weight and altitudes between 10,000 and 11,000 it took full throttle to maintain cruise RPM, takeoff distance was doubled and climb out was 200 to 300 feet per minute instead of the normal 1100 feet per minute. We felt canyon flying with these aircraft could mean trouble if caught in a downdraft without enough power to overcome them.

Again, many thanks, to all who helped us in the planning and executing this great trip.
May you always have tail winds.

Great trip report. Nice to see someone in a small plane do big trips.
tom