Backcountry Pilot • Dangerous Landing Method?

Dangerous Landing Method?

Share tips, techniques, or anything else related to flying.
26 postsPage 2 of 21, 2

I agree that we're probably not all on the same page!

"Dragging it in" is definetely NOT a technical term and means different things to different people at different points in their flying career. To me, at 38 years and 5000 hours, it means approaching in nearly level flight at the minimum speed for my weight where nearly full power will (maybe) keep the aircraft from stalling. NOT A GOOD ROUTINE APPROACH!

Let's review the power curve one more time: Any airplane in LEVEL flight has a wide range of speeds determined by design and engine power. From maximum speed in level flight it requires less and less power to go slower up to a point at a minimum amount of power. This is close to the max angle of climb speed and similar to the minimum sink speed in gliders. Below this speed, more and more power is required to maintain level flight up to the point where maximum power will not keep the aircraft from sinking and/or stalling.

For most aircraft, the minimum level flight airspeed (minimum power required) is slightly slower than the normal book approach speed, indicating that the approach speed is just above the point where the power required curve goes back up again, and thus is on the "front" side of the curve. Pull back on the stick without changing the power and you will go up or at least down more slowly. Plenty of speed and elevator authority to flare and deal with mild sink on final. Life is good and small errors in airspeed or power are not a problem.

As you get below that speed, MORE power will be required to fly level at a slower airspeed, and due to the nature of the curve the required power increases nearly exponentially to the airspeed loss. If you have ever seen this graphed, it looks like a J tilted over onto it's right side.

So, operations on the backside of the curve start reasonably safely at a speed just below that of the published short field approach speed and progresses rapidly into a highly dangerous flight regime where a very experienced pilot must know his aircraft and environment perfectly to achieve minimum landing distances that are well below the book figures.

This is NOT something to try on a gusty hot afternoon! Operations like this have resulted in many bent aircraft over the years.

I think it is reasonable for a pilot to approach slightly behind the power curve as he gains experience in a specific aircraft, particularly at lighter weights. The short field approach speed, if noted, is always at gross weight, and you can safely approach at speeds several knots below it when light. The key to recognizing when you are getting real close to the edge is if you need more power to flare properly in calm conditions.

For me, I like that speed where I do not need more power to flare, but closing the throttle during or at the end of the flare results in a three point touchdown after only 50 or so feet of float. I have experimented at length with slower speeds and found that at best I could shave another 100 feet or so off the rollout, and for me the added risk was simply not worth it in all but the most critical situations. I used to take pride in planting my aircraft on the numbers all the time, but after stubbing my tires on the edge of the pavement a few times and taking out a runway light or two I decided that maybe landing in 600 feet instead of 500 was good enough.

For any lowtime pilots that want to experiment, you should be able to hold your approach speed within one (1!) knot, and you can decrease your speed one or two knots at a time, with five nearly identical landings to a full stop at each speed before progressing to a slower one. (So you want to be a test pilot, eh?) My guess is that you will quit before shaving much more than 6 knots off the book figure, and now you know how little operations far on the backside of the curve will really improve on good normal short field approaches.

Still, any pilot that want to operate out of short fields needs to understand and be comfortable with the concept and it's application in his particular aircraft at various weights.

Good Luck and try not to hit too hard!

Rocky :shock:
RockyTFS offline
User avatar
Posts: 190
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 5:05 pm
Location: Hailey, Idaho
Image

What's ground effect have to do with anything? You can be behind the power curve at ten feet or ten thousand.

I make pretty much every landing so that the airplane is done flying when I get to the ground. I often use power to slow my descent rate, and usually to flare. Doesn't matter if it's a short gravel bar or over trees. I've never felt that it was particularly dangerous - a little forward stick, a little more power, and I'm climbing. The forward stick alone gets me to a "normal" glide, which probably lands me gently in the trees on the other end of the strip, or off in the river, or .... Yea, it's ugly if the engine quits, but the fan stopping in cruise would be just as fun in 99% of the country I fly in.

If you're that worried about engine failure, do yourself a favor and stay in the pattern.

I'd highly recommending knowing how to use your ass instead of instruments to fly the airplane before - well, soloing, but certainly before getting to the point where you're trying to land short. If you're really trying to fly on the edge, and you have any idea what some widget says your airspeed is, go around.
Dustymc offline
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:25 am
Location: Fairbanks

Dustymc wrote:What's ground effect have to do with anything? You can be behind the power curve at ten feet or ten thousand.


Ground effect has to do with everything if you're trying to get on the ground as slow as possible.

The same aerodynamics that let an airplane be forced off the runway at way too slow an airspeed to really fly and then wallow down the road about three feet in the air can be used to do the exact opposite when you land. Get in ground effect a few feet above the ground, pull the nose up to lose airspeed, then add a bit of power to hold altitude.

Just a useful tool to have in the bag of tricks.

Gump
GumpAir offline
User avatar
Posts: 4557
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:14 am
Location: Lost somewhere in Nevada
Aircraft: Old Clunker

Dustymc wrote:What's ground effect have to do with anything? You can be behind the power curve at ten feet or ten thousand.


Yes, but the indicated A/S will be significantly different. You guy's would laugh, but the best I ever got doing this was in a C-152.
a64pilot offline
Posts: 1398
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:40 am

a64pilot wrote:
Dustymc wrote:What's ground effect have to do with anything? You can be behind the power curve at ten feet or ten thousand.


Yes, but the indicated A/S will be significantly different. You guy's would laugh, but the best I ever got doing this was in a C-152.


I won't laugh. My 150, and I'm assuming the 152, handle very nicely on the backside. I was playing around with mine this summer trying to see how slow I could go and stay level with full flaps and power on at altitude. It took nearly full power. The experiment kind of failed since I didn't have my GPS and my airspeed was just bouncing off zero.

Incidently I had a heck of time getting my soft field landings perfected in the 150. I learned to fly in a 7GCBC which could be held just off the runway with 1500rpm and full flaps at gross. The 150 takes about 2100rpm to do the same. Took me a while to figure out just how much more power (percentage wise anyway) I needed.

Phil
Bear_Builder offline
User avatar
Posts: 344
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 10:14 am
Location: North Pole
FindMeSpot URL: http://share.findmespot.com/shared/face ... sYc5J8KHOS

When I was getting my PPL, I could not land smoothly unless I had a bit of power. Oddly I was doing 80mph and had an odd tendency to force the plane down on the ground. Once I got my PPL, I went immediately and started on floats, this taught me not to force anything, and to allow the plane to slow and settle. I flew with another CFI and he landed with the stallhorns blaring....scared the hell out of me. Now that's the only way I land.
shadowraven offline
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:31 am
Location: Liberty, ME

DISPLAY OPTIONS

Previous
26 postsPage 2 of 21, 2

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

Latest Features

Latest Knowledge Base