Yeah,

We all can screw up. I consider myself a competent pilot and have been a lot of tight places with our Maule, as well as other aircraft. But last year was my first attemt at "mild" back country flying. I went into "easy strips" JC, Moose Creek and Meadow creek in Montana. None of my approaches were anything to brag about.

At JC I came around the corner over Yellow Pine and was surprised when JC filled the windscreen. I was high and fast. A side slip to touch down solved that. We touched down in the first 300 ft. and stopped 1/3 of the way down....but it wasn't pretty.

Moose Creek was better....yet I floated and landed several hundred feet farther down than I intended.

At Meadow Creek(like a super highway) I was overcome by the illusion that the strip was short and wide. Came over the trees....touched down fine....stopped less than half way down. But was pissed that I allowed the "illusion" to convice me that it was scary. Went back out and made two more landings before I was satisfied. When I discussed it with my non-pilot, passenger son he said..."dad all you had to do was just continue your stabilized approach and ignore the illusion." Thanks son! ...been doing that for a lifetime. But he was right and I was disappointed in myself.

When I watch the videos and hear your tales ....my heart beats fast and I want to get back out there and try the difficult ones. But I sit here some days and think....43 years and over 30,000 safe flying hours, including thousands in high performance tailwheel aircraft, into and out of challenging places. Yet at age 62.....maybe my luck bag is growing empty and perhaps I should just rest on my laurals and lifetime of good luck. Hanger flying is half the fun!!

Have fun guys....and be safe.

bob

Ok, ok. I readily admit I shouldn't have jumped to a conclusion before more facts were known and the post was in poor taste/premature. I'm actually very glad to hear that he had the good sense to get training in the area before flying there. As someone else commented, too many just jump in fat dumb and happy, without a good appreciation for what they are getting themselves in to. I have a keen understanding and respect for the added risk that we accept for the reward of flying in this part of the country. Those that know me, know that I expose not only myself, but my small family as well. All I can do is make damn sure that I do all in my power to mitigate the risk as much as I can, i.e. knowing my limits, knowing my aircraft's limits, being proficient in my aircraft, and being able to read the conditions as best as I can and hopefully recognizing when something doesn't add up. Doesn that mean I don't make mistakes? Of course not. Does that mean that I could do everything perfect and there still be something out of my control? Sure it does. Like I said, I was glad to hear he had some experience because hopefully it will act as a warning for those that don't and a reminder for those of us that do. Of course, the most important thing is that no one was killed.

On anther note, I was glad to hear the good feedback on how the Spot worked. A guy that I fly with is on a SAR team in CO and they haven't had good luck with getting good, usable information from Spot when people use the 911 function. I want to get one for my parents since they go all over creation on their quads and it would be nice in the event they have a problem.

GSP

Bonanza Man wrote:Last year during the Super Cub fly in the idiots who took off three abreast and then about crashed into each other as shifting winds and a little wake turbulence mixed up the pot.

Hey BM, Where do you get your information? You don't know what you are talking about.

A note on SPoT placement in the plane: it needs to be at least a foot away from any GPS. The frequencies are very close and will screw things up if the two devices are too close to one another.

ASW.

Coyote Ugly wrote..It just seems really weird to me to be having your fun at someone elses pain and expense... No thanks... You can sit and have your fun and popcorn alone... I'll side with the guy that is pushing the envelope a bit to better himself, living his life to the fullest. I'll feel bad with him if, God forbid, a mistake happens and go see if I can help him.

A good philosophy nicely put

z3skybolt wrote:Yeah,

We all can screw up. I consider myself a competent pilot and have been a lot of tight places with our Maule, as well as other aircraft. But last year was my first attemt at "mild" back country flying. I went into "easy strips" JC, Moose Creek and Meadow creek in Montana. None of my approaches were anything to brag about.

At JC I came around the corner over Yellow Pine and was surprised when JC filled the windscreen. I was high and fast. A side slip to touch down solved that. We touched down in the first 300 ft. and stopped 1/3 of the way down....but it wasn't pretty.

Moose Creek was better....yet I floated and landed several hundred feet farther down than I intended.

At Meadow Creek(like a super highway) I was overcome by the illusion that the strip was short and wide. Came over the trees....touched down fine....stopped less than half way down. But was pissed that I allowed the "illusion" to convice me that it was scary. Went back out and made two more landings before I was satisfied. When I discussed it with my non-pilot, passenger son he said..."dad all you had to do was just continue your stabilized approach and ignore the illusion." Thanks son! ...been doing that for a lifetime. But he was right and I was disappointed in myself.

When I watch the videos and hear your tales ....my heart beats fast and I want to get back out there and try the difficult ones. But I sit here some days and think....43 years and over 30,000 safe flying hours, including thousands in high performance tailwheel aircraft, into and out of challenging places. Yet at age 62.....maybe my luck bag is growing empty and perhaps I should just rest on my laurals and lifetime of good luck. Hanger flying is half the fun!!

Have fun guys....and be safe.

bob

Over 30,000 hrs....Bravo! That had to have been some airline hours. Am I right? What Airline?

Grassstrippilot wrote:On anther note, I was glad to hear the good feedback on how the Spot worked. A guy that I fly with is on a SAR team in CO and they haven't had good luck with getting good, usable information from Spot when people use the 911 function. I want to get one for my parents since they go all over creation on their quads and it would be nice in the event they have a problem.

GSP

Expand on this comment a little bit. What happens with the SPOT that isn't quite right? It sounds like they get an emergency message but the GPS coordinates are missing/in error. Is that right?

Dave wrote:Hey BM, Where do you get your information?

Several witnesses.

Bonanza Man wrote:

Dave wrote:Hey BM, Where do you get your information? You don't know what you are talking about.

Several witnesses.

Several witnesses??? interesting... why would "several witnesses" invent such a story? Your account is completely inaccurate and I'd suggest you get your facts straight before you speak.

Bonanza Man wrote:

Grassstrippilot wrote:On anther note, I was glad to hear the good feedback on how the Spot worked. A guy that I fly with is on a SAR team in CO and they haven't had good luck with getting good, usable information from Spot when people use the 911 function. I want to get one for my parents since they go all over creation on their quads and it would be nice in the event they have a problem.

GSP

Expand on this comment a little bit. What happens with the SPOT that isn't quite right? It sounds like they get an emergency message but the GPS coordinates are missing/in error. Is that right?

From what he told me, they were called out for a missing hiker who had activated their Spot 911 feature. He said that it took something in the neighborhood of 6-9 hours to get any info from whomever the source is for coordinates. Then he said that the information that they were given wasn't a specific lat/lon, but essentially a grid, which, according to him, wasn't much more akin to searching for a 121.5 ELT with regards to the area to be searched. It's been months since we had this discussion and I'd have to corner him again for more details. If I see him, I will.

Hello all
I am the pilot of the 182 that had the incident at Wilson Bar 7-6-09. This has been quite an eye opener, both from the accident and the people that have responded to it.
It is easy to sit back and get oil stains on your pants from popcorn watching other people and their miss experience or be like me-when the Mooney crashed in front of me at Big Creek last year I was the second one on the wing, which was covered with 100LL, helping get the two people out as fast as possable, knowing that there could be a fire. I came away with other peoples blood and gas and I KNOW I did good. I chose not to sit back and watch fate but to be a part of fate, reguardless of the outcome. Which/what are you? Do you let life make decisions for you or do you make decisions for life.
About Me 2400 hr, 1300hr in type, 500hr in backcountry, single engine land sea with an instrument, Flying since 1966 and will continue.
I could talk about what happend wrong but I prefer what happened right. Good cargo net. I was going in to camp and spend the night. Plan your emergency and what not to do that you will know will kill you. The spot was great but you need to get your profile comlete and all the necessary local phone numbers for where you are playing. Remember the spot works off satalite and must see a satalite to work. It took me 1 hr to find the spot which went from the top of the dash to outside 10 feet away. I will now use the spot when I arrive, tracking will be less important. I want it on me. When you come out of a wreck you are so messed up the less you have to think about the better, safety first.
More later, Kirt

Thanks for your post, Kirt. I for one would love to hear more about your experience and what went wrong. It has a lot of value (for me) to hear it from the horse's mouth and learn from it. Do share when you get some time-

I am the passenger of the 182 incident at Wilson Bar on 7/6. I am not a pilot and have just started flying. I used to be a white-knuckle flyer on the commercial planes and swore I would never get in a small one! Kirt took me up in December to fly over Hell's Canyon and I was hooked. We had been flying almost every morning for two weeks prior to the incident and I felt (and still feel) that Kirt is an excellent pilot. Because of his safety preparations and his decisions in the last moments before the crash, we walked away. He had told me some stories about crashes he had seen or heard about and that if handled correctly (and the Good Lord is willing) you should walk away. I didn't fear for my life as it was happening, I was thinking "Oh no, the plane! How are we going to get out of here". I just wanted to let people know that I am looking forward to more flying with Kirt.

Gina

Kirt, welcome to the site. Glad you are ok.

There are two kinds of pilots. Those who have crashed and those who are going to crash.

I hope when it is my turn it is just a bent plane and not worse.

Cheers...Rob

RobBurson wrote:Kirt, welcome to the site. Glad you are ok.

There are two kinds of pilots. Those who have crashed and those who are going to crash.

I hope when it is my turn it is just a bent plane and not worse.

Cheers...Rob

Maybe, but dont let your insurance company hear you say that.

It's getting hard to move in here with all the puffed out chests. I can only imagine what it's like to bend a plane and learn that your misfortune is being discussed on an internet forum. Had we known you, Kirt, and known of your backcountry pedigree, perhaps the discussion would have gone differently out of deference to a fellow typist. You were, until now, just one of the faceless other guys who bend planes and make us look bad.

Chuck Yeager ground-looped a T-6 a few years back. Fortunately he is of dubious reputation as well, so you're in good company.

I'm glad you are safe and that you feel you performed well in a trying situation. Often the shame of our mistakes can be more difficult to surmount than any physical damage. Gina would fly with you again, so it must not have been too awful.

At this point in the thread, however, all I know is that:
1) there was a crash,
2) no one died,
3) cargo nets save lives,
4) some people admonish others for bending metal while some people high five them for pushing the envelope and surviving,
5) Kirt is proud of his performance in a crisis,
6) Kirt and Gina are alive and will fly together again, and
7) Gina posts as Kirt


What I really want to know is: How did it happen, and how can I avoid doing it? Did you screw up? Or does it remain a mystery as to why you crashed? Would you do anything differently now? I understand if you want to remain tight-lipped until after the FAA investigation (if there is one) is completed, but in my opinion, this thread is just a bunch of posturing unless the details can be discussed.

Thanks.

Kirt
Good On Ya,
Sounds like you flew it all the way to where it stopped!
Only way to make the landing work.
It sounds like as they say it was just a good landing because you bent some parts, It's the great ones when nothing is bent!!!
I don't know your relationship with Gina, but it damn well is a lot closer now than before the last landing!
The last one I bent I couldn't get anyone back in???Oh Well!
Everyone has there own way and that what makes Life interesting, So damn glad of that because I sure don't want to become one of those sheep just following the other.
When I did my last bend it was all luck as because it seems to me everything I did just made it worse.
Next time I make it to to your stomping grounds I'll let you know and you and Gina can have a steak dinner on me.
Thanks for sharin a little bit of your soul!
GT
ps if you have any say in the matter, You better Keep Gina close by!

let me say even though i don't know kirt, i'd fly with him. good job kirt, even though your bird got bent, big deal!
us old dirt-bike/pilot guys can take it. last one i bent, the faa guys were aces to deal with, and, once they knew that all the p'work was in order, so was the ins. co. my thanks to ray arnolds son for transporting my bird out of j.c.
glad it worked out as good as it did for you, hang in there...

seems like i met you at sulphur one crisp morning when i stopped there with lori, last yr i believe, and your 182 worked damn good in your hands...carry on, shit happens...!

kirt wrote:The spot was great but you need to get your profile comlete and all the necessary local phone numbers for where you are playing. Remember the spot works off satalite and must see a satalite to work. It took me 1 hr to find the spot which went from the top of the dash to outside 10 feet away. I will now use the spot when I arrive, tracking will be less important. I want it on me. When you come out of a wreck you are so messed up the less you have to think about the better, safety first.
More later, Kirt

Did the SPOT get pretty banged up from going thru the windshield and whatever else before it came to rest?

Hello today,
Spot is a tough unit. It exited the plane hit the rocks and worked as promised. Spot signal was picked up at 12:05,probably 5-10 min after I turned it on (it was off while flying) 3 passes later at 12:15 they had the GPS cord. Lori at McCall Mountain canyon flying was able to work with the dispatcher and figure out that I was at Wilson Bar. She contacted many people including McCall Aviation who had a plane in the area that got us and our stuff out. Good luck Great people. Back to the profile. Lots of people were contacted that were not on my profile and should have been and that is why it was a speedy recovery. Luckly for us minor injuries therefore we had time but the unknown. If injuries were more serious the time becomes critical. Spot as it is set up now does not notify divisioin of aeronautical and might be limited in authorising search and rescue-you know protocal. Come up with yourown protocal, do not leave it to others.
Kirt