Can anyone see any legal issues with donating a flight in an Experimental for a charity auction. The winner would be paying for the flight, but revenues go to a charity.

No big. the lucky winer writes a check to what ever for 100 bucks. A few weeks later to take him for a flight. the money never crosses your palms.

I have done this four times. They take one look at my plane and then say "no thanks" Not really. They just never find the time.

Tim

Your airplane??? Or you?

Gump

qmdv wrote:No big. the lucky winer writes a check to what ever for 100 bucks. A few weeks later to take him for a flight. the money never crosses your palms.

I have done this four times. They take one look at my plane and then say "no thanks" Not really. They just never find the time.

Tim

Maybe you should leave the scuba gear at home Tim

I like to follow up on issues like this. Researched a denied claim by Avemco a few years back. Volunteer did charity rides all day long for something like Shriners or whatever. Last landing of the day went bad. Three dead and pilot burned. He lived in the burn unit for about two months. Avemco denied payment... said his policy prohibited commercial operations. He had donated his plane, time and fuel.
BUT.... money changed hands.... with a small donation to the charity from each passenger. Avemco took it all the way to state supreme court. They WON. Money changed hands... and that made it a commercial venture.
Surviving wife lost their farm, savings... husband. All of it. Bastards will look for any out... when there are fatalities. If it is just crunched metal and engines... they usually pay. Behind the scenes they call it hardware versus software. You kill the soft bits.... the claims go way up. Then they start the dance to see how they can get out of paying. Just my observation. Damn shame too... because many of these causes are very good...

It would be me and my plane for a half hour local flight. I would never have anything to do with the money, but I know this is a grey area. Would really like to do it, it's for a good cause.

Like everything... we weigh the odds and then make our choice. If you do it, likely it will be great... and a great cause to contribute to.
Best of luck.

If it's totally a donation by the "winner" to the charity and totally a donation by the pilot/owner to the charity (no recompense for fuel, etc.), I doubt that either the FAA or your insuror would find a problem. But that's not what you said: "The winner would be paying for the flight". So that needs to be changed, so that the "winner" makes a donation to the charity, and is not "paying for the flight." Semantics makes a huge difference, both to the FAA and to your insuror. As one of my professors said when a classmate complained about whether a comma made any difference, "If you don't care about language and commas, you are not cut out to be a lawyer."

Then contact your insuror and get it in writing that what you're proposing to do falls within your coverage. Do not, repeat DO NOT, take the word of your agent, who does not have the authority to bind the insuror regarding coverage, and DO NOT accept any oral assertions from anyone.

Cary

Kitfox5 wrote:It would be me and my plane for a half hour local flight. I would never have anything to do with the money, but I know this is a grey area. Would really like to do it, it's for a good cause.

I think Gump's comment was directed back at Tim, we realize it's you giving the flight.

Flightlogic gave you the best answers your going to get regarding liability, and legally you cant operate an experimental commercially. It may seem like a gray area to you, but if something happned, it's going to be black & white in the eyes of the FAA & your insurance company. I've also thought about doing this, but that question of liability, outweighed my generosity. Maybe you can offer a free flight to be given away with the caveat that IF they enjoyed the flight a donation was made AFTERWARD to your charity. Hopefully they would get the picture!

Good luck & be safe!

Just got off the phone with my agent at Falcon Insurance. He said that if the winner of the auction or raffle gives money to the charity and you donate your plane , fuel, oil and your time then it is the same as giving a buddy a ride. He went on to say that a customer emailed him and asked the same question except he wanted the charity to pay for his fuel and he only was going to donate his time. Answer was no way-no coverage. He also added that the quy was a Maule driver

Tim

Thanks for the input. Sounds like its all in the set up. So I'll give someone a free ride if they have made a donation to this charity.

You might want to read this first: Guide to Charitable/Nonprofit/Community Sightseeing Flights.

Kitfox5 wrote:Can anyone see any legal issues with donating a flight in an Experimental for a charity auction. The winner would be paying for the flight, but revenues go to a charity.

A complicating question would be if you could claim this as a charitable contribution on your IRS tax return and how FAA would view that contribution as it would lower your taxable revenue and hence, the amount you pay in taxes (if you itemize).

Oops..

Thanks for the link to 91.146. So, according to the FAR's this can't be done in an experimental, only standard category. That is disappointing.

WilgaBeast wrote:Oops..

My original quote did NOT consider your experimental certification. (thus the edit to avoid propagating bad information)

Unfortunately, selling rides, and/or doing charity work in experimental and limited category airplanes requires operations under an exemption. While it is possible, it's not 'easy'. There is a moratorium on exemptions until December 2012, so you cannot apply until after the moratorium is lifted. Even then, the process for operating with an exemption requires a training plan for ground and flight training/annual check rides and the training plan must be approved and the program monitored.

The Commemorative Air Force is such a group that has multiple aircraft on an 'exemption' list.

◦Flights are not conducted over a national park, unit of a national park, or abutting tribal lands, unless the operator has secured a letter of agreement from the FAA, as specified under subpart B of part 136 of the FARs, and is operating in accordance with that agreement during the flights.

Well I guess I have been busted. You cannot fly anywhere arround here without flying over some tribal land.

And who is going to volutarilly call the FSDO. Oh screw it. I think I will just keep on busting regs anyway.

Tim