Since putting the 29" bushwheels on my 185 the brake performance has degraded substantially. I'm switching over to organic pads tomorrow hoping that helps. But in looking at the brake assembly today I realized adding a second caliper would be very easy, just need to have a new attachment plate built with ears for attaching the calipers fore and aft. Then a "T" for the brake line.

Okay you hydraulic engineers what am I missing here? And has anyone ever tried this or seen it?

Do you think it'll be cheaper than swapping out to double puck calipers?

Already have double puck calipers.

To put the brakes in perspective when I had 8.50x6's, really aggressive use of the brakes from 3 point would bring the tail right up so you knew you could put her on her back.

Changing to 26's seemed the perfect combo, from 3 point really aggressive braking would lift the tail but not past horizontal.

With the 29s, standing on the brakes will all the pressure I can muster and she just gradually slows down.

This is a very common complaint of people switching out to Bushwheels for the first time, and more common if you're re using old pads.

Put on new pads and get used to the difference in braking characteristics , and I bet you find the off field braking performance of the big wheels to be superior to that of the old little ones... On pavement the nod may go to the little wheels, but there is rarely a need or desire to lock bushwheels on pavement...

I have no problem locking big or little wheels off field, but the larger contact patch of the low pressured big wheel means more braking power every time...

Take care, Rob

Hey Rob, haven't had the 29's on pavement, and all three examples are from turf stops, the only place I work on short landings with braking. Hope the organics improve things cause right now if I had to stop quick for any reason, like a deer bolts out in front of me, it ain't happening. Otherwise I love the 29's.

Checkout the brakes on Aztecs they have a double puck dual piston calipers.. I don't think the bolt pattern on the mounts would fit , but it could give you some ideas, and they do have a tee in the lines.

You'll get it Phil. Had the same problem. The new pads should fix ya up. I could stop on a dime after that.

N300RE thanks for the tip.

Jason, installed the organic pads today and looked all over for that dime you mentioned but couldn't find it.

Backstory. When we installed the 29's we also installed new metallic Rapco linings. The rest I've talked about.

I had a PM with Greg and he suggested I try organic brake linings. Cleveland organics arrived today and we installed them. They require a very specific break-in procedure which I followed. At its conclusion I have to say that my first impressions are favorable. I had two others in the plane with me so will know better tomorrow when I'm by myself.

Did talk with Cleveland today to see if they had ever done dual calipers for Skywagons. Nope.

Dang Phil. No dice? Sorry your having problems man.
Skalywag, how you liking your new setup?
Was really hoping to come up and fly with you some but I've Ben jammed up at work. Thank goodness. And headed to Indiana Monday or Tuesday for about a month on the corn run. We will definately catch up when I get back!
I know when input new pads on (they're shot now) I could lock em up. Good luck buddy. Hope you get it.

There's something to be said for brakes that won't put you on your back. Deer runs out I. Front close, you're gonna hit it anyway. Good brakes are good enough. I don't need great brakes.

MTV

I'll be happy to achieve good. Hopefully the organics will do it. Find out tomorrow. If not the dual caliper project will begin.

Oh yea!



Stops on 2 bits and gives 15 cents in change. Organics rule! Thanks Greg!

Does this mean I have to become a vegetarian? Boy that would suck!

Barnstormer wrote:Oh yea!



Stops on 2 bits and gives 15 cents in change. Organics rule! Thanks Greg!

Does this mean I have to become a vegetarian? Boy that would suck!

Haven't you ever heard of organic beef?

So what exactly are organic liners made of? How do they differ from metal compound pads?

N300RE wrote:Checkout the brakes on Aztecs they have a double puck dual piston calipers.. I don't think the bolt pattern on the mounts would fit , but it could give you some ideas, and they do have a tee in the lines.

The Aztec brakes are wonderful for GW 5200 lbs aircraft. Could stop on a dime! Rotors, pads etc will run about a grand.5 to change. But, they last a long time

What's the organic pads made of, who makes/sells them, etc? I use Rapco RA66-105 pads with my single-puck Clevelands and I don't get the greatest braking action with my 850's. Rapco pads cost about 55% of what Clevelands cost, but I wouldn't mind spending more for better braking but I've run Cleveland pads before and didn't notice any change when I switched to Rapcos.

I was never able to find the exact mix of materials used in Cleveland Organics.

So I stole this from a Mountain bike website:
http://www.pinkbike.com/news/brake-pad-information-2009.html
*******
There are 2 main types of disc brake pads: Sintered (or metallic), and Resin (or organic). Both types of pads have their pros and cons.

Sintered Pads
Sintered pads are made up of hardened metallic ingredients, which are bound together with pressure and temperature.

Pros
-fade at a higher temperature than resin pads
-better performance in wet conditions
-last longer

Cons
-louder
-longer break-in time
-not as much initial bite
-heat is conducted through the caliper, not the rotor

Resin Pads
Resin pads are made up of fibers and organic material that are bonded together with resin.

Pros
-Quieter
-Shorter break-in period
-More initial bite
-Prevent heat buildup
-Pushes heat back into the rotor

Cons
-Wear quicker
-Not as good in wet/muddy conditions
*******

Here is some additional material info:
********
Semimetallic: This formula, containing about 30 to 65 percent metal, typically includes chopped steel wool or wire, iron powder, copper or graphite mixed with inorganic fillers, and friction modifiers that bond all the ingredients together. These pads are more durable and have excellent heat transfer, but also wear down rotors faster, have intrusive noise characteristics, and may not perform as well under low-temperature conditions.

Nonasbestos organic: Sometimes listed as organic or NAO, this type of pad is made by mixing nonasbestos fibers, such as glass, rubber, carbon, and Kevlar, with filler materials and high-temperature resins. These pads are softer and create less noise, but they wear faster and create more dust.

Low-metallic NAO: These are made from an organic formula mixed with small amounts (10 to 30 percent) of copper or steel to help with heat transfer and provide better braking. With the added metal, there is more brake dust and they may be slightly noisier.
*********

Based on what the Cleveland Organic linings look like to me I'd say they are closer to Low-metallic NAO as they do have very tiny bits of copper in them.

Got my pads from Spruce, 66-105
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/cleve_brklining.php

Followed the breakin procedure to the letter and each run (did 2) I could see a distinct improvement.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pdf/liningconditioningprocess.pdf

I interpreted step two to mean : Go Fly The Plane for 10 to 15 minutes.

Organic Beef. I initially read that as Organic Beer. Hmmmm. Oh yea, love organic beef, organic chicken, and organic bacon!

Cleveland Organic's are (comparatively) expensive, but boy what a night and day difference they made.

Rapco says their 66-105 pads are organic: "organic linings are actually made fro a semi-metallic mix.Rapco combines brass, copper, & Kevlar fibers with a high temperature binding compound...". Doesn't sound all that organice to me, but I can't find anything from Cleveland detailing the materials used in their organic pads so I assume that they're similar.
Spruce used to sell Barry Jay brand pads-- not PMA'd so experimental only but they seemed to work just fine and were even less expensive than Rapco's (like half).