The Pipistrel significantly outperforms the Beaver by the way. So nothing new here:

https://www.pipistrel-aircraft.com/airc ... /#tab-id-2

Even Howard built his “Hercules”. Practical or not. At least Howard used all his own money for all his endeavours - I’m watching what develops on the money front on this one. Harbour air has no deep pockets.....

Zzz wrote:

Mountain Doctor wrote:If/when Mercedes/Audi/BMW/Porsche bring out a viable competitive attractive car I would consider it, but a Tesla, no.

*Looks up from driver's seat of 20 year old Toyota truck.

Tell me about it. I couldn’t kill my ‘85 4Runner if I tried!

I’d sure as hell drop a Tesla dual-motor drivetrain in it if it was affordable though.

Or, better yet, I’d sure as hell buy a Tesla as a DD and retire the 4Runner to top-down, nice weather family driving if I didn’t own an airplane...

I think most would prefer to not know my opinion, but oh well. Here it is.

I remain excited for an actual new realm of innovation in aviation. Whether the institutional conservatism of the FAA will help or hinder is always a fence to straddle between safety and progress. Experimental aviation is cool and all, but in its modern, most popular form (EAB) isn't that experimental.

I was talking about this Beaver project with a friend today at lunch who is a power plant construction engineer, and on an unrelated note is in the process of leasing a Tesla. He had some good points:

1. Even if you're not the kind of guy who leases cars, leasing electric cars is the one time it makes sense because of the speed of advancement in the emerging tech. People are always looking ahead to the next revision and the old stuff loses value quick.

2. In addition to my earlier point about electric drive being neat because functions on the aggregate of energy production, whether oil or donkey on the mill wheel, it arrives at your house, or office, or most places, instantly. It doesn't have to be compressed, trucked, pumped, or otherwise transported like gasoline or hydrogen (if we're comparing alternate energies.) Sure there are logistics and a lot of work in planning and operating the grid, but for the most part it's already there. Backcountry and super rural areas notwithstanding.

3. Electric drive simplifies the systems of a vehicle, at least cars, greatly. Gone are the differentials, drivelines, fuel system, lubrication system, and a lot of moving parts in the engine that are required for a piston engine. An airplane doesn't really enjoy much simplification in the same regard because they're already pretty simple drive-wise. Introducing a bunch of software? Yeah, that could be scary initially. But lots of mechanical parts is also scary in its own way. Some design flaws can even be corrected with software updates. It's both a blessing and curse.

I guess you have to decide whether you can get behind innovation, or resist it philosophically because you fear what you're comfortable with is being threatened. It is possible to do both simultaneously. I have a $40,000 Lycoming 540 here that might become a boat anchor in how many years? Who knows. That's kinda scary, especially since my income is substantially less than say, a doctor. But I also want to see this new electric tech scaled up to manned aircraft, and eventually transport aircraft.

E vehicles of any type are very low on maintenance, for sure. Just a lot less "stuff." My three ebikes have only had regular bike type mishaps, broken brake levers from operator error (crashes) and flats, that's it. I'd be very confident in an eplane.

I agree with pretty much all of your points Z, and Courier Guy.

I do picture day, somewhere in the future, when electric vehicles may be viable. I think that the issue making them impossible at present is battery energy density. This applies especially for airplanes.

I don’t have problems with innovation. I think that my current car is especially innovative, as is my Ducati. My Maule, not so much

If and when electric vehicles become useful for enthusiasts such as myself that like cars, I would certainly consider one, but not from Elon the Muskrat. If one of the European manufacturers, or perhaps Cadillac perfects them , I would certainly consider one. To be honest Ford looks like it may have a winner.

As far as an electric airplane is concerned. That’s easier. I don’t have any emotional attachment to the powertrain of my airplane. All an electric airplane would have to do is have superior performance, for less money, with demonstrated reliability over a long period of time. Piece of cake LOL

"1. Even if you're not the kind of guy who leases cars, leasing electric cars is the one time it makes sense because of the speed of advancement in the emerging tech. People are always looking ahead to the next revision and the old stuff loses value quick."


Well, if this is the case, and it is, because things are just being built to be throwaways anyway - Why bother? Not doing anything to help the environment in the least. Probably cleaner to burn oil in a vehicle that lasts 20 years rather than a lease toss away in 3, scrapped in 6. Even if there were recycling facilities - they have their own huge environmental impact.

Mark Y. wrote:https://www.planeandpilotmag.com/article/electric-beaver-flies/#.XgVR1NenGUk

And it has virtually no useful load once the pilots aboard.

A loooooong ways to go to even a glimmer of “success”.

In my opinion, a total waste of a valuable airframe. A Caravan or ?? Would have been a better choice for proof of concept. But, it’s their plane. And their project. I hope they have a huge bankroll to fund this.

MTV

Wow, that article reads like a hit piece from a magazine that gets a lot of its revenue from an aero holding company heavily invested in petroleum based engine technologies rather then one with roots based on the daring ingenuity of two bicycle shop owners test flying their zero useful load airplanes on the dunes of Kittyhawk over a hundred years ago.

Thinking they must have seen a dip in their stock... Wonder if said magazine is owned by said holding company?

And bravo to our Canadian brothers for leading the way, just how they did with the DHC-II.

For the sake of our children and aviation in general I think it's important we all think bigger then ourselves and save the poo pa-ing for those who have given up on aviation and life.

Rocket

Yeah, anyone who can engineer a conversion like this is no dummy.

Step 1: Announce you're going to convert your Beaver fleet to electric
Step 2: Actually make a test flight with an electric conversion, not worrying about impressing anyone with load or range.
Step 3: The internet goes bananas talking about it because the DHC-2 is a well known classic airplane, even laymen will share the news, and electric stuff is hot right now.
Step 4: Get more attention from a space where there is ample VC.

Any new tech like this is an arc made from iterations, not a singularity that occurs overnight. Many days and years to go yet. Someone has to do the work.

Zzz wrote:Yeah, anyone who can engineer a conversion like this is no dummy.

Step 1: Announce you're going to convert your Beaver fleet to electric
Step 2: Actually make a test flight with an electric conversion, not worrying about impressing anyone with load or range.
Step 3: The internet goes bananas talking about it because the DHC-2 is a well known classic airplane, even laymen will share the news, and electric stuff is hot right now.
Step 4: Get more attention from a space where there is ample VC.

Any new tech like this is an arc made from iterations, not a singularity that occurs overnight. Many days and years to go yet. Someone has to do the work.

Indeed, but the real work will be in improving battery technology, and/or other power sources. In this they’ve proven what? That a Beaver can fly with 450 horsepower?

Converting an airplane to different power is relatively easy......note I didn’t say certifications it will be. But the power plant is where the real work is needed.

MTV

mtv wrote:

Zzz wrote:Yeah, anyone who can engineer a conversion like this is no dummy.

Step 1: Announce you're going to convert your Beaver fleet to electric
Step 2: Actually make a test flight with an electric conversion, not worrying about impressing anyone with load or range.
Step 3: The internet goes bananas talking about it because the DHC-2 is a well known classic airplane, even laymen will share the news, and electric stuff is hot right now.
Step 4: Get more attention from a space where there is ample VC.

Any new tech like this is an arc made from iterations, not a singularity that occurs overnight. Many days and years to go yet. Someone has to do the work.

Indeed, but the real work will be in improving battery technology, and/or other power sources. In this they’ve proven what? That a Beaver can fly with 450 horsepower?

Converting an airplane to different power is relatively easy......note I didn’t say certifications it will be. But the power plant is where the real work is needed.

MTV

Agree. They have a useful powerplant. Little maintenance and one moving part and high power and smooth and quieter than a piston engine are all great! No effect of DA and no preheating and less cooling issues are wonderful benefits and exist now. It is also possible the electric motor will improve in the future. No character, soul, or personality like a radial but those are not the qualities that keep you safe over the mountains so I'm OK with that too.

The problem is there is no practical way to power the motor.

There may be a day that there will be an effective battery for use in cars, planes, boats etc. but that day is not today. Tomorrow is not looking good either. Someday there may be a new element found on an asteroid that defies the periodic table or maybe it will be a fuel cell but what they are using now is not the answer.

Also, what is the question?

Gas is cheap and plentiful, and we (US and Canada) have vast untapped resources
.

rocket wrote:Wow, that article reads like a hit piece from a magazine that gets a lot of its revenue from an aero holding company heavily invested in petroleum based engine technologies rather then one with roots based on the daring ingenuity of two bicycle shop owners test flying their zero useful load airplanes on the dunes of Kittyhawk over a hundred years ago.

Thinking they must have seen a dip in their stock... Wonder if said magazine is owned by said holding company?

And bravo to our Canadian brothers for leading the way, just how they did with the DHC-II.

For the sake of our children and aviation in general I think it's important we all think bigger then ourselves and save the poo pa-ing for those who have given up on aviation and life.

Rocket

I read the article carefully and critically and it seemed like a fair and accurate account without bias.

I think the biggest issue causing a ruckus here is this:

What happened: Electric powerplant proof-of-concept that uses a well known commercial platform achieves successful short hop test flight. Press release from companies involved proclaim successful flight. Excited internet people run with it.

What pilots and aviation industry people heard/read/interpreted: Someone converted a Beaver to electric because they want to outlaw gasoline and radials and all these econazi friends on Facebook are asking when I'm going to get an electric plane because they have them now and all I can think is about how that electric technology sucks because it can't accomplish what my Lycoming or P&W can and they also ruined my dream plane Beaver so me and other industry smart guys are writing articles stating the obvious as if it's a huge exposé on electric airplanes.

In other news, this guy built a lightsaber. Discuss.

Zzz wrote:I think the biggest issue causing a ruckus here is this:

What happened: Electric powerplant proof-of-concept that uses a well known commercial platform achieves successful short hop test flight. Press release from companies involved proclaim successful flight. Excited internet people run with it.

What pilots and aviation industry people heard/read/interpreted: Someone converted a Beaver to electric because they want to outlaw gasoline and radials and all these econazi friends on Facebook are asking when I'm going to get an electric plane because they have them now and all I can think is about how that electric technology sucks because it can't accomplish what my Lycoming or P&W can and they also ruined my dream plane Beaver so me and other industry smart guys are writing articles stating the obvious as if it's a huge exposé on electric airplanes.

In other news, this guy built a lightsaber. Discuss.

Okay, Zane.....which one of you (the light saber guy or yourself) has too much free time on your hands.....?

You do realize now that Hammer is in a frenzy to get a knowledge base article to you about the best light sabers, right???

Happy New Year, Dude...

MTV