Do they take on some magical quality when on a commercial flight?
Chris

14 C.F.R § 91.21 bans the use of all portable electronic devices (with a few odd exceptions) for all flights operated by an airline or those flights under Instrument flight rules (IFR).

In the case of an aircraft operated by a holder of an air carrier operating certificate or an operating certificate, the determination required by paragraph (b)(5) of this section shall be made by that operator of the aircraft on which the particular device is to be used. In the case of other aircraft, the determination may be made by the pilot in command or other operator of the aircraft.

Makes you wonder how your GPS and Sirius works in your own plane??


Kinda like the 60 year rule for 121 pilots that was raised to 65, or the difference between the 2nd and 3rd class medicals and then the sport pilot?? Someone said this is what it is and so be it!!

Tadpole wrote:I would think maybe if you could find out when that FAR was created, was back with early PEDs that probably put out RF that caused concern. Today, less likely, but no one in the FAA feels the need to update / change / remove it and no one outside feels the need to do the process to change it either.

i guess i'm still looking for an incident/accident/concern that led to the regulation

The number of devices and applications available for use by general aviation pilots is growing tremendously ... that's the good news, and we should all get used to these devices since they offer great functionality. The bad news is the impact of these devices on modern avionics is more art than science, and we have seen an increasing number of interference-related incidents across diverse training and charter aircraft.

We've had extensive discussions with manufacturers, Garmin and other avionics shops and have some new policies when using *flight school name deleted* aircraft:

1 - Cell phones need to be off. Use of cell phones in the aircraft are prohibited by the FAA (driven by the FCC). And if you believe this requirement is "over-the-top", we continue to see newer cell phones (e.g., Blackberry, iPhones) interfere with the magnetometer in the G1000 aircraft and even non-glass aircraft that have a slaved compass. In fact, Garmin requires that phones and related technologies are completely off (not just in "airplane mode").

2 - Use of personal electronic devices is PROHIBITED by student pilots. We have also witnessed cases where personal electronic devices (e.g., smart phones, iPads, etc.) have disabled WAAS GPS systems and disrupted avionics sensors. Student pilots have enough to worry about without added distractions. With the information available from the G1000 and good VFR weather, there is really no need for a student to be further distracted. The risks far outweigh the benefits.

3 - Use of portable electronic devices by certified pilots is allowed but use CAUTION. Certified pilots may use personal electronic devices, however, you are strongly encouraged to check with one of our CFIs first to hear some actual lessons-learned and discuss various scenarios. In particular, do some research to really understand if your device can actively transmit any signal and if it was made by an avionics manufacturer.

Virgin Atlantic will soon allow passengers to use their cell phones during flights, but don't expect your phone-free fuselage to be replaced with coffeehouse clatter.
The airline announced today it will allow passengers to make in-flight phone calls, send and receive texts, check e-mail, and surf the Web via general packet radio service (GPRS) from inside A330 Airbus planes on flights between New York and London. The airline expects to offer the service in 20 planes by year's end, it said in a press release. Boeing 747s are also being retrofitted for the service.
"We have listened to what customers want and connectivity in the air is always on the wish list," Virgin Atlantic Chief Operating Officer Steve Griffiths said in the release. "Many people will have experienced that moment when you're about to take off on a 10-hour flight and you need to send an important message to the office, or even reminding a family member to feed the cat."
However, that privilege will not be cheap: Virgin will charge about $1.20 per minute for the service, and access will be limited to six passengers at a time.
"The service is intended for use in exceptional situations, when passengers need to send an SMS, make a quick call, or access an e-mail on a BlackBerry," the company said.
Customers of Telefonica's O2 and Vodafone networks will be the only ones to initially have access to the service, which will be powered by AeroMobile. And, of course, cell use will be verboten on take-offs, landings, and within 250 miles of U.S. airspace.
British Airways and a handful of Middle Eastern airlines already offer cell phone access.

RDUStinson wrote:

i guess i'm still looking for an incident/accident/concern that led to the regulation

In the concerns department, this notice was sent out by a local flights school regarding the topic:

The number of devices and applications available for use by general aviation pilots is growing tremendously ... that's the good news, and we should all get used to these devices since they offer great functionality. The bad news is the impact of these devices on modern avionics is more art than science, and we have seen an increasing number of interference-related incidents across diverse training and charter aircraft.

We've had extensive discussions with manufacturers, Garmin and other avionics shops and have some new policies when using *flight school name deleted* aircraft:

1 - Cell phones need to be off. Use of cell phones in the aircraft are prohibited by the FAA (driven by the FCC). And if you believe this requirement is "over-the-top", we continue to see newer cell phones (e.g., Blackberry, iPhones) interfere with the magnetometer in the G1000 aircraft and even non-glass aircraft that have a slaved compass. In fact, Garmin requires that phones and related technologies are completely off (not just in "airplane mode").

2 - Use of personal electronic devices is PROHIBITED by student pilots. We have also witnessed cases where personal electronic devices (e.g., smart phones, iPads, etc.) have disabled WAAS GPS systems and disrupted avionics sensors. Student pilots have enough to worry about without added distractions. With the information available from the G1000 and good VFR weather, there is really no need for a student to be further distracted. The risks far outweigh the benefits.

3 - Use of portable electronic devices by certified pilots is allowed but use CAUTION. Certified pilots may use personal electronic devices, however, you are strongly encouraged to check with one of our CFIs first to hear some actual lessons-learned and discuss various scenarios. In particular, do some research to really understand if your device can actively transmit any signal and if it was made by an avionics manufacturer.

Speaking as a guy who tests RF interference and susceptibility as part of my job, I can tell you that the effects of any particular interferer and "victim" devices and locations are almost impossible to predict for even a single case, and must be tested. Of course this ain't gonna happen for all the various cell phones, laptops, iPad, iPhone, iPod, iVibrator devices they might choose to come out with and station at completely random locations inside the metal waveguide.

I'd rather the guys in the front of the 737 I'm riding to grandma's house in not serve as test pilots on that particular day (particularly on approach), and I guess the FAA agrees...

In the course of your testing, have you seen much in the way of interference?

M6RV6 wrote:How bout you Canadian travelers? Can you use your phone or electronic device on the commercial flights in CA. or do you have to shut them off?
My understanding of cell phones in flight is that you hit to many cell sites when you are in the air, someone told me that they still work tho, just not right above the site!!
I know my Ipad still receives info while in the air??
GT

GumpAir wrote:With as many passengers a day who DON'T shut off cell phones/pads/laptops on pretty much EVERY flight, you'd think there'd be a huge amount of data reported if there actually was any kind of problem.

And, I've been in more than a few front seats with lots of glass and high dollar electronics, where flight crew was using all the toys themselves for most of the flight.


Gump

Zane wrote:I read a long time ago that the cell phone thing was a FCC rule that was meant to prevent cell tower channels from being hogged.