I got tired of the yes you can-no you can't, he said-she said thing re EFD approval.
So I emailed the Seattle FSDO, attn. airworthiness dept:

"I am interested in installing a Garmin G5 Electronic Flight Instrument for VFR-only use in my 1953 Cessna 180. This installation would not involve removing any required instruments, nor is it a "major alteration" as per FAR 1.1. As you know, the Cessna 180 was approved under the old CAR 3 certification standards which do not include any requirement for TSO'd instruments. Therefore, I am not aware of anything which would prohibit this installation as a minor alteration. However, to avoid problems, I do want to verify this with the FAA before proceeding further. Please advise,"

I was a little hesitant to do this-- after all, if you don't ask, they can't say no-- but here's the reply from one of their Aviation Safety Inspectors:

"You are correct in what you have stated. Just make sure that all the maintenance is completed by a properly licensed mechanic and that you make a logbook entry showing the work you completed."

So I think I will be going ahead with the G5. Not that this email is "approved data", but I plan to keep a copy of it with the G5 user's manual in my aircraft records, along with a copy of the logbook entry documenting the installation.

Nice, hotrod

Thats awesome hotrod!! You'll Love it!

After a false start or two, I received my Garmin G5 from Pacific Cast Avionics this week, and got it installed.
Pretty slick. Still gotta learn all the nuances-- the users manual (all 152 pages of it ) makes it all sound easy, but when it says to go to such-and-such a page and do something, such as disabling the airspeed altimeter & VSI displays when the pitot & static are not connected, it sometimes takes several intermediate stops that they don't mention. Pretty much getting the hang of it though. Got to tweak it a bit more tomorrow and I should have it dialed in.

A good post script to this thread....on the first day of Airventure 2016, Garmin announced that they have received an STC for the G5. Unlike the EAA / Dynon STC for the Dynon D10, the Approved Model List for the G5 STC includes several hundred different airplanes. Unfortunately the STC'd model is roughly $750 more than the original version, but at around $2150 it's still a good deal for anyone wanting to replace their primary attitude indicator and turn coordinator with glass. Still need a traditional DG for IFR ops however.

hotrod180 wrote:I got tired of the yes you can-no you can't, he said-she said thing re EFD approval.
So I emailed the Seattle FSDO, attn. airworthiness dept:

"I am interested in installing a Garmin G5 Electronic Flight Instrument for VFR-only use in my 1953 Cessna 180. This installation would not involve removing any required instruments, nor is it a "major alteration" as per FAR 1.1. As you know, the Cessna 180 was approved under the old CAR 3 certification standards which do not include any requirement for TSO'd instruments. Therefore, I am not aware of anything which would prohibit this installation as a minor alteration. However, to avoid problems, I do want to verify this with the FAA before proceeding further. Please advise,"

I was a little hesitant to do this-- after all, if you don't ask, they can't say no-- but here's the reply from one of their Aviation Safety Inspectors:

"You are correct in what you have stated. Just make sure that all the maintenance is completed by a properly licensed mechanic and that you make a logbook entry showing the work you completed."

So I think I will be going ahead with the G5. Not that this email is "approved data", but I plan to keep a copy of it with the G5 user's manual in my aircraft records, along with a copy of the logbook entry documenting the installation.

Way to go Hotrod180!

Is I've said before, sometimes its better to ask permission rather than forgiveness!

If anyone would like a copy of my 337 for a G3X installation in a certified C170B, just PM and I'll get it to ya. The more the merrier!

Log...

I looked on the garmin web site. I couldn't find the AML. Does anyone know where to get the actual list of 562 aircraft that are covered in this STC?

Here's the link to the STC & AML for the G5.

Had a bit of a curve thrown at me today re approval of the G5.
In addition to my previous OK from the local FSDO via email, my IA contacted his PMI to get his blessing on my G5 installation before doing the logbook entry. The PMI is fine with it, except that he wants it to have the backup battery. I didn't really want to spend the extra $150, esp since this is for a VFR-only installation, and since I'd already gotten an OK without that condition. But I can't really kick since that requirement is per FAA policy statement PS-ACE-23-08, "replacement of vacuum driven attitude indicators in 14 CFR, Part 23 / CAR 3 airplanes" dated 9/14/15.

You guys contemplating installation of a G5 might research this policy statement- looks like a good way to save about $750 by installing the "experimental" version instead of the STC'd one.

Logpile wrote:

hotrod180 wrote:I got tired of the yes you can-no you can't, he said-she said thing re EFD approval.
So I emailed the Seattle FSDO, attn. airworthiness dept:

"I am interested in installing a Garmin G5 Electronic Flight Instrument for VFR-only use in my 1953 Cessna 180. This installation would not involve removing any required instruments, nor is it a "major alteration" as per FAR 1.1. As you know, the Cessna 180 was approved under the old CAR 3 certification standards which do not include any requirement for TSO'd instruments. Therefore, I am not aware of anything which would prohibit this installation as a minor alteration. However, to avoid problems, I do want to verify this with the FAA before proceeding further. Please advise,"

I was a little hesitant to do this-- after all, if you don't ask, they can't say no-- but here's the reply from one of their Aviation Safety Inspectors:

"You are correct in what you have stated. Just make sure that all the maintenance is completed by a properly licensed mechanic and that you make a logbook entry showing the work you completed."


So I think I will be going ahead with the G5. Not that this email is "approved data", but I plan to keep a copy of it with the G5 user's manual in my aircraft records, along with a copy of the logbook entry documenting the installation.

Way to go Hotrod180!

Is I've said before, sometimes its better to ask permission rather than forgiveness!

If anyone would like a copy of my 337 for a G3X installation in a certified C170B, just PM and I'll get it to ya. The more the merrier!

Log...

Got any pics of your install? I would love to have a G3X/G3X Touch in my 182

Good job!

You might want to hook it up to your pitot/static system so that you can use your altimeter and airspeed tapes--I find them handy on my Quattro.

It'd be great if someone would create an electric digital DG at reasonable cost to replace the vacuum, constantly precessing model like I have. Then I'd have my AI rid my airplane of the entire vacuum system, which would knock off some pounds. I don't know what I'd do with the hole left by the vacuum gauge--maybe install a working panic button!

Cary

Vacuum pump, instruments, & associated hoses etc that I pulled outa mine weighed 14 pounds.

Cary wrote:.....You might want to hook it up to your pitot/static system so that you can use your altimeter and airspeed tapes--I find them handy on my Quattro. ...

.
I like the less-cluttered electronic display (without the ribbons) just the way it is.
No need for the airspeed & altitude tapes anyway- the steam gauge airspeed indicator & altimeter are in the panel on either side of the G5, and I'm not about to remove those.
And the G5 has a digital ground speed display in the lower left corner & a digital altitude readout in the lower right corner (both GPS-derrived).

Here is something I like to ask myself every once and a while, would you do it again and would you recommended it to a friend?

I absolutely love the idea of a certified attitude indicator such as the G5 especially at the price that it is available for. I ask because one of the things that needs to happen with my 185 is the refurbishment of all of the gauges and the layout of a new panel. Don't worry, nothing crazy with the panel other than moving some things around and making it look less used and abused.

I have installed a Sandia 340 in a 206 on floats, field approved as a primary replacement gauge. the aircraft has no vac system. It has been problematic to date. Somewhat unstable and prone to cross check flags. Shows erroneous bank readings at times during maneuvers. The factory has been extremely helpful and are still working with me to figure the problem out. Looking at possible vibration issues. Has anyone else had similar experiences/

I also have a Dynon D-6 in a different aircraft. Have had it for several years. This gauge has been rock solid and I trust it. I understand the FAA may be issuing field approvals on this for certified aircraft even though they are not TSO'd. Dynons are less than half the price of the Sandia.

sriracha wrote:...I also have a Dynon D-6 in a different aircraft. Have had it for several years. This gauge has been rock solid and I trust it. I understand the FAA may be issuing field approvals on this for certified aircraft even though they are not TSO'd. Dynons are less than half the price of the Sandia.

Google up and read the document I referenced in my earlier post (FAA policy statement PS-ACE-23-08, "replacement of vacuum driven attitude indicators in 14 CFR, Part 23 / CAR 3 airplanes" dated 9/14/15), and see if you think it is applicable to the Dynon D6. I don't see any reference in it indicating the electronic attitude indicator requires a TSO.

I detected a bit of frustration on the part of those at Scandia with the FAA that they appear to be approving none TSO'd units.

hotrod180 wrote:Vacuum pump, instruments, & associated hoses etc that I pulled outa mine weighed 14 pounds.

^^^^^ I'm really looking forward to this day - replacing all the steam in my panel for something like a D100 and a EI MVP-50P. I've been pinging dynon monthly about adding the 180 to the STC. I don't want any Garmin products if I can help it - or at least a few as possible - I might have to look at a used 430W when everybody else is upgrading...

$$$$$

Nothing I fly professionally has a vacuum system, everyone outside of General Aviation seems to get along fine without it. For the Luddites afraid of letting go of the old stuff, our checkrides require manoeuvring onto an ILS and hand-flying it to minimums using just the Goodrich/L3 GH-3000 standby instrument and everything else on the panel gone. That instrument is $50,000 plus whatever addons you put in, and it does a lot less than the G5. The G5 is a steal.

Logpile wrote:

hotrod180 wrote:I got tired of the yes you can-no you can't, he said-she said thing re EFD approval.
So I emailed the Seattle FSDO, attn. airworthiness dept:

"I am interested in installing a Garmin G5 Electronic Flight Instrument for VFR-only use in my 1953 Cessna 180. This installation would not involve removing any required instruments, nor is it a "major alteration" as per FAR 1.1. As you know, the Cessna 180 was approved under the old CAR 3 certification standards which do not include any requirement for TSO'd instruments. Therefore, I am not aware of anything which would prohibit this installation as a minor alteration. However, to avoid problems, I do want to verify this with the FAA before proceeding further. Please advise,"

I was a little hesitant to do this-- after all, if you don't ask, they can't say no-- but here's the reply from one of their Aviation Safety Inspectors:

"You are correct in what you have stated. Just make sure that all the maintenance is completed by a properly licensed mechanic and that you make a logbook entry showing the work you completed."

So I think I will be going ahead with the G5. Not that this email is "approved data", but I plan to keep a copy of it with the G5 user's manual in my aircraft records, along with a copy of the logbook entry documenting the installation.

Way to go Hotrod180!

Is I've said before, sometimes its better to ask permission rather than forgiveness!

If anyone would like a copy of my 337 for a G3X installation in a certified C170B, just PM and I'll get it to ya. The more the merrier!

Log...

Sorry to dig up an old thread. Ive been lurking here a long time. I PM’ed Logpile on this but it appears he no longer visits. Does anyone have this information from him? I would love to use it as a starting point.