RDUStinson wrote

we have no idea what to do with the crap.

Where have you been? Ever heard of Flexible Fuel Vehicles and E85---make your own with what they give you---you lucky dog? Lots of Suburbans, Taurus's, Chrysler mini vans. I'll post a link to identify vehicles that are flex. I'm running E30 in a 2000 Buick that isn't flex and getting 28 mpg with 16 miles being the longest jaunt. I think it is true that E30 does better than E10.

http://www.e85fuel.com/flexible-fuel-vehicles/

RDUStinson wrote: ...and we have no idea what to do with the crap.

Line the runway with tiki torches? That would be cool, don't know how long the corn water would burn though.

Where have you been? Ever heard of Flexible Fuel Vehicles and E85---make your own with what they give you---you lucky dog?

So now I have to buy a new car to use the crap I ended up with that I didn't want to buy in the first place? Not sure how lucky that makes me...

Line the runway with tiki torches?

Now THAT's a brilliant idea!

I'd use it in my lawnmowers, but know it'll eat up the carbs.

RDU, do they still have any drag strips in your area? On the forum I'll post a link to, there are some guys that will drive quite a ways to buy a barrel of straight E98. Here is a quote from one thread I just looked up.

Now to the questions, i have found a place that will sell me E99-98 and i will be mixing it myself into E85. i was planing on mixing it with Shel 91, no add ethanol, but is nitrogen enriched. Will i have any problems with that?

http://e85forum.com/index.php
P.S.

So now I have to buy a new car to use the crap I ended up with that I didn't want to buy in the first place?

You must be driving a pretty old car. I've had E50 in my 1992 Toyota 4x4 for 9 years with no problems.

RDU, here is another thread on that forum you might read entitled "Converting a lawnmower to run on E85"

http://e85forum.com/about488.html
Here is a quote from that thread that I found interesting.

I have 2 lawnmower conversions

1st I have a 4-5 year old push mower with a 5.5hp honda that I soaked the air filter in water and let it dry and it created enough restriction that it works perfect so I have a e85 filter and a gas filter so switching back and forth is easy


second is more fun I have a 1967 cub cadet 122 with a 16hp kohler that is no longer stock I estimate 12-1 cpr. the carb has been rejeted custom every thing- just say the only things oem are the block, crank and carb body. it runs good on corn!!!! at 6000 rpm.

Marty, thanks for the leads. A few years ago I would have been happy to play around with mixing stuff up, experimenting with carb jetting, etc. as suggested on the forum you linked to. Nowadays I have trouble finding the time for such things, and really just want a reliable source of unleaded fuel for my Stinson without the politically mandated hassle.

BTW- it's interesting to read on the E85 forum of the various problems folks have with ethanol, which I'd expect to also see here in the humid southeast with my '86 K10 and '95 Camry...

Here's the first posting of an interesting study on the energy balance of producing ethanol:

http://netenergy.theoildrum.com/node/6760

The same site also seems to have far more technical reports on what is happening in the gulf oil spill, and what the equipment is like that is used in the deep water drilling.

tom

New Chemical May Pave Way for Ethanol Pipelines
Comment on this post Posted by Joanna Schroeder – July 26th, 2010

A new technology may aid in the development of pipeline infrastructure to move ethanol. MidContinental Chemical Company, Inc. has announced a new fuel ethanol additive designed to combat stress corrosion cracking (SCC) a problem that is inherent in shipping ethanol through pipelines. Today more than 100,000 miles of pipelines snake across the U.S. and deliver petroleum products including gasoline, diesel fuel, and home oil but not ethanol.

The ethanol industry has been pushing for an ethanol pipeline – the driving factor being the ability to transport fuel via pipeline offers lower transportation costs. Yet, fuel ethanol transportation and storage do have their challenges one of which is SCC, the slow growth of cracks along a pipeline that are caused by mechanical stress and exposure to corrosive material. Ultimately, SCC can lead to pipe rupture.

According to company materials, MCC’s new product family consists of film formers combined with other functional additives. These products are clear, non-hazardous, mobile liquids, that provide protection from corrosion and do not harm the fuel product. Phil Korosec, Technical Director at MidContinental Chemical Company, Inc., explained, “Our bench testing using ASTM G129 and other extensive tests on fuel ethanol under pipeline-like conditions indicate that fissuring and cracking can actually be halted, keeping harmful components of fuel ethanol from compromising the integrity of pipelines, without harming the ethanol.”

As more and more ethanol enters the fuel supply, in part due to the demand created by the Renewable Fuels Standard, the ethanol industry is searching for ways to transport the fuel at lower costs. Everett Osgood, Product Manager for Fuel and Renewable Fuel Additives with MCC concluded, “It’s estimated that transporting fuel ethanol in existing pipelines instead of by truck or rail can reduce transportation costs by up to 90% in some areas. That’s an enormous savings.”

Seems to me this just confirms how nasty ethanol can be. If it causes stress cracks in the pipeline, it sure can't be good for my carb...

Jaerl wrote:Why can't we just have our old gas back?

Because breathing lead has a long history of undermining human intelligence (especially in children) and debasing behavior.

Because breathing lead has a long history of undermining human intelligence (especially in children) and debasing behavior.

Maybe that's what happened to me... I don't think anyone believes lead is a good thing, but I think Jaerl was referring to ethanol-free mogas. And I wonder if the majority of the piston GA fleet was able to use ethanol free car gas, would the remaining high performance piston engines that require 100LL produce enough pollution to be an issue?

No, our guvmint has concluded that "Ethanol good: everyone MUST use" and "Lead bad: noone may use". And we all suffer the consequences...

Its all about common good. You do not count as an individual. I remember reading somwhere that this was all tried in Russia about 100 years ago. Did not work out to well.

Tim

RDUStinson wrote:No, our guvmint has concluded that "Ethanol good: everyone MUST use" and "Lead bad: noone may use". And we all suffer the consequences...

Which guvmint? I've been under the impression that the states are the ones mandating 10%.

We had a state senator (Oregon State Senate) announce that she had changed her mind on the ethanol mandate (after being behind it in the first place), and was trying to repeal it, after experiencing the reduced fuel economy. That was a few years back though, haven't heard much since.

http://news.opb.org/article/2666-oregons-ethanol-mandate-under-fire/

Which guvmint? I've been under the impression that the states are the ones mandating 10%.

As I understand it, the Fed mandates that the refiners must sell x gallons of "renewable fuels' (previously known as "oxygenates"), with an increaing value of x each year. The 10% at the pump is the states' implementation of that mandate. Or something like that...

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2008/05/06/gop_senators_seek_hold_on_ethanol_mandate/
http://reason.org/news/show/127496.html