mountainmatt wrote:Let's keep it civil and refrain from personal attacks. (PM it if you need too.)

Way to go Matt, you sound like a school teacher. Lets be like the PE teacher I had. Come to the gym boys and we will put the gloves on you and you can show everybody how ( ) you are by beating the crap out of each other.

IMHO you don't get behind the controls of a F-16 or any other military aircraft unless you are very good............... or your daddy is a senator.

OscarDeuce wrote:OUCH! I think Little wheel was being sarcastic - in reference to the tendency we all sometimes have to jump to conclusions....

Best,
O-2

Quite well-done sarcasm if you ask me. Thanks Little Wheel

OregonMaule wrote:

mountainmatt wrote:Let's keep it civil and refrain from personal attacks. (PM it if you need too.)

Way to go Matt, you sound like a school janitor. Lets be like the PE teacher I had. Come to the gym boys and we will put the gloves on you and you can show everybody how ( ) you are by beating the crap out of each other.

Fixed it for ya. It's to bad that idea doesn't have similar results online.

denalipilot wrote:

OscarDeuce wrote:OUCH! I think Little wheel was being sarcastic - in reference to the tendency we all sometimes have to jump to conclusions....

Best,
O-2

Quite well-done sarcasm if you ask me. Thanks Little Wheel

Yep, my bad. Missed the sarcasm my first read through. (It has been a long week...)

OscarDeuce wrote:OUCH! I think Little wheel was being sarcastic - in reference to the tendency we all sometimes have to jump to conclusions....

Best,
O-2

Ummm....


Little Wheel, if you were doing the (well-finessed) sarcasm, and I was too dense to get it, my apologies...



stan

Had this pilot chosed to do the fly by with the Tundra, this would have never happened

Likely the biggest audience (attendees + aviation media + mainstream media) of his flying career-and he (by early report consensus) lands long and bends and breaks things.......

......lands long and bends and breaks things...... apparent (video, reports) fact.
I wasn't trying to 'laying blame' at the pilot's doorstep. Whether it was a systems failure-or whatever-it was quite an INOPPORTUNE time to display a failure. Normally it would have happened at an AFB where the Mil/Gov folks would have been the spectators.....
It is rather natural to take the first look at the pilot-just like when a person is killed in a homicide the first person looked at is the spouse-because, odds/Hx indicates, that is where to look first........
That is why there is a thorough investigation-the first impression is ONLY that.

lc

Everybody WILL MAKE A MISTAKE. If your lucky nobody will see yours and you will live to fly again!

I tell my kids, " If you want to know everything, ask someone who drinks out of a paper bag. If you want to know about aviation mistakes, I bet Bob Hoover will tell you some biggies. The smart ass on the field has never made a mistake. I like talking to people who make mistakes and people who say "I don't Know".

P.S. My good friend spent a good bit of time flying Harrison Ford around in his AIR-Cam at Oshkosh. (unrelated just fun to know). He said Harrison was very down to earth and kept calling him "sir". Seems like he was a nice guy. Probably made a couple mistakes in his life. As for my friend he left Oshkosh yesterday to continue his cross country trip from the Chesapeake to Oregon.

.....his AIR-Cam at Oshkosh

Your friend's AIR-Cam....? or HF's? Just curious....

lc

The Air-Cam was built by and belongs to Claudius Klimt and Carlo Cillier. I believe it was featured on the cover of AOPA Magazine last year. they have many hours on it with no problems.

Even if it turns out to be a mistake on the part of the pilot, I truly hope nobody's career as an Air Force pilot is over because of this. It is a waste of good talent, a waste of millions in pilot training, and a waste of taxpayers' money.

I'm guessing it's pretty easy for even a good pilot to make a mistake in an F-16. If it was pilot error, unless he showed true incompetence or truly bad judgment, I'm not sure that ending a pilot's career over something like an overshoot is a wise choice.

Remember that history shows von Richtofen was one of the worst student pilots of his time, yet he became the greatest fighter pilot of his time.

Flap,
These days (this is the next century of aviation-compared to the Baron) the military has very expensive/realistic/re-usable SIMULATORS. The beauty is you learn the hard lessons with your ego and not the EXPENSIVE front line equipment.....
How many 30-50 million $ mistakes are allowed in your book? I guess it may go back to who the pilot is related to again ...... but typically they don't have a chance at 'two' (one way or the 'other') if it IS pilot error.

lc

Sorry southernboy, I was being sarcastic. I have been criticized for wanting to give the benefit of the doubt to pilots involved in accidents until the situation is fully understood. It is quite common for pilots to do stupid things, but often there are factors that would catch many of us. I think it is important to understand why things happen so that I can become a better pilot. As an instructor I have found that most pilots have some tendencies that could cause trouble under the right circumstances, including me.

For a more informative take on this incident, see smokyray's post at http://www.vansairforce.com/community/s ... 564&page=9

Could have been much worse. Glad it wasn't.

Col. Rob Ray ("smokey") is the real deal. High level of experience, high level of expertise with that very aircraft, high credibility in both "big airplane" and "little airplane" worlds.

I'll side with him until all the facts come out otherwise.

And money (even $30-50M) is not nearly the only factor in determining if or when someone's flying career is over. If a guy like Einar Enevoldson or Bob Hoover or Fitz Fulton had wrecked an airplane or two early in their career, even from pilot error, aviation would be far worse off if some idiot General had shit-canned or desk-jockeyed them.

As mentioned already, none of the people here should cast the first stone.

Nowadays, they don't have to put them at a desk....they're actively looking for prospective Predator pilots...

Hope it was bad brakes.

MTV

In the 50's, 60's, and even early 70's it was not unheard of for a pilot to prang a plane (some more than 1!) and still progress through the ranks and have a successful career in the AF. However, since the mid-80's it has become a "one-mistake AF" (despite senior officers' comments to the contrary), and I don't see that changing. Not too many folks make it up to field-grade, never mind flag-rank officer with even insignificant violations of military regulation, procedure, or having bent a $30MM aircraft . . .

Glad no one was hurt, and the plane not significantly damaged. The ARB will publish the results of their investigation . . .

Retired USAF

IMHO:
Multi million dollar F16 and the defogger won't work. This stinks to high heaven of the GOLDEN BOY SYNDROME we had them at the fire department. No matter how bad you fuck up it wasn't your fault. HOW ABOUT THIS if your window fogs up GO AROUND and wipe it with your hand moron. Don't cost the US tax payer $5.4 million because you can't wipe the window. Idiot. See how pissy I get when my plane is down and the sun is out

Air Force: Fogging Caused F-16 OSH Overrun

The F-16 that ran off the end of Runway 36 at Wittman Regional Airport after landing during the 2011 EAA Oshkosh AirVenture gathering did so because the cockpit got foggy, according to the Air Force. The Air Force accident investigation board report says that the jet's environmental control system caused extreme fogging that completely obscured the pilot's vision. Contributing factors were a fast touchdown speed and inadequate aerobraking by the pilot, which increased the landing distance.

The jet and pilot were assigned to the 100th Fighter Squadron, 187th Fighter Wing at Dannelly Field, Ala. The pilot landed in the number-two position of a two-ship formation at midday as part of a training flight. According to Air Combat Command, the pilot "applied the defog procedure" without success during landing and was therefore deprived of "necessary visual clues." The F-16 departed the paved surface of the runway and came to rest roughly 300 feet beyond the runway's end. The pilot was not injured in the incident. Damage to the aircraft has been estimated at $5.4 million.

The article I read said he considered punching out but was afraid of where the jet would end up. It must have been a pretty dire situation. You can't reach most of the canopy strapped in the seat of an F-16.

AvidFlyer wrote:The article I read said he considered punching out but was afraid of where the jet would end up. It must have been a pretty dire situation. You can't reach most of the canopy strapped in the seat of an F-16.

So the Air Force wants me to believe that every thing was A O K till he touched down and instant fog! I'm not buying it. If it fogged on short final get on the gauges go IFR declare an emergency! Unbuckle your damn seat belt and wipe the window. I'll tell you what happened plain and simple, the pilot screwed the pouch. Man up and admit it.

Good day

i was standing right there and it was obvious the pilot wasn't able to slow down. He was headed towards a group of planes at the end of the runway so he ran it into the grass and dumped the nose wheel. Rumor quickly spread that he lost his breaks at some point in the flight. I don't know how much of that is actually true but from what i saw and how he reacted it makes sense.