If you smash up your plane are you required to report it to the FAA. How about if you taxi plane into an irrigation ditch, break the nose fork and bend up the prop. Just asking. Guess that is a prop strike though.

Tim

I don't like the sound of that... Hope it wasn't you.

"Substantial damage means damage or failure which adversely affects the structural strength, performance, or flight characteristics of the aircraft, and which would normally require major repair or replacement of the affected component. Engine failure or damage limited to an engine if only one engine fails or is damaged, bent fairings or cowling, dented skin, small punctured holes in the skin or fabric, ground damage to rotor or propeller blades, and damage to landing gear, wheels, tires, flaps, engine accessories, brakes, or wingtips are not considered "substantial damage" for the purpose of this part."

Sounds like yes, but it's your interpretation of how bad the damage actually is. Sounds like a major repair from what you said.

Sounds like more than $25,000 in damage. Yep you must report. FAR/AIM, AIM section 7-6-2. Also look at CFR 49 830.2...after yesterday, this shit is fresh in my head! I still feel like this after my oral...

I think there is something to do weather you were taxiing to take off or land? If you were just taxing to reposition on the ground not intending to fly or coming from the runway after landing?

Tim,

It's sorta like your underwear at this age--depends....

If the nose gear is busted, the cowling is bent and the prop is bent, you'd need to get the engine overhauled, or at least the crank checked. But, accident??? No.

Now if STRUCTURE was bent, then yes, its an accident, and you are required to report to the FAA.

MTV

Glidergeek wrote:I think there is something to do weather you were taxiing to take off or land? If you were just taxing to reposition on the ground not intending to fly or coming from the runway after landing?

NOPE.... See FAR/AIM # above

aktahoe1 wrote:Sounds like more than $25,000 in damage. Yep you must report. FAR/AIM, AIM section 7-6-2. Also look at CFR 49 830.2...after yesterday, this shit is fresh in my head! I still feel like this after my oral...

AIM section 7-6-2 1(f) states:
Damage to property, other than aircraft, estimated to exceed $25,000 for repair (including materials and labor) or fair market value in the event of total loss, whichever is less.

So it looks to me that if I taxi into a ditch and cause over 25,000 to plane, no report. Taxi into a new Bugatti Veyron
and cause minimal damage to plane then I will most likely have to report.

Tim

I thought that if ya post it on here, you did report it to the FAA.

Well you are correct there...sort of...here is the real FAR/AIM..See the bottom paragraph

Substantial damage:[53 FR 36982, Sept. 23, 1988, as amended at 60 FR 40112, Aug. 7, 1995]
As used in this part the following words or phrases are defined as follows:

Aircraft accident means an occurrence associated with the operation of an aircraft which takes place between the time any person boards the aircraft with the intention of flight and all such persons have disembarked, and in which any person suffers death or serious injury, or in which the aircraft receives substantial damage.

Civil aircraft means any aircraft other than a public aircraft.

Fatal injury means any injury which results in death within 30 days of the accident.

Incident means an occurrence other than an accident, associated with the operation of an aircraft, which affects or could affect the safety of operations.

Operator means any person who causes or authorizes the operation of an aircraft, such as the owner, lessee, or bailee of an aircraft.

Public aircraft means an aircraft used only for the United States Government, or an aircraft owned and operated (except for commercial purposes) or exclusively leased for at least 90 continuous days by a government other than the United States Government, including a State, the District of Columbia, a territory or possession of the United States, or a political subdivision of that government. “Public aircraft” does not include a government-owned aircraft transporting property for commercial purposes and does not include a government-owned aircraft transporting passengers other than: transporting (for other than commercial purposes) crewmembers or other persons aboard the aircraft whose presence is required to perform, or is associated with the performance of, a governmental function such as firefighting, search and rescue, law enforcement, aeronautical research, or biological or geological resource management; or transporting (for other than commercial purposes) persons aboard the aircraft if the aircraft is operated by the Armed Forces or an intelligence agency of the United States. Notwithstanding any limitation relating to use of the aircraft for commercial purposes, an aircraft shall be considered to be a public aircraft without regard to whether it is operated by a unit of government on behalf of another unit of government pursuant to a cost reimbursement agreement, if the unit of government on whose behalf the operation is conducted certifies to the Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration that the operation was necessary to respond to a significant and imminent threat to life or property (including natural resources) and that no service by a private operator was reasonably available to meet the threat.

Serious injury means any injury which: (1) Requires hospitalization for more than 48 hours, commencing within 7 days from the date of the injury was received; (2) results in a fracture of any bone (except simple fractures of fingers, toes, or nose); (3) causes severe hemorrhages, nerve, muscle, or tendon damage; (4) involves any internal organ; or (5) involves second- or third-degree burns, or any burns affecting more than 5 percent of the body surface.

Substantial damage means damage or failure which adversely affects the structural strength, performance, or flight characteristics of the aircraft, and which would normally require major repair or replacement of the affected component. Engine failure or damage limited to an engine if only one engine fails or is damaged, bent fairings or cowling, dented skin, small punctured holes in the skin or fabric, ground damage to rotor or propeller blades, and damage to landing gear, wheels, tires, flaps, engine accessories, brakes, or wingtips are not considered “substantial damage” for the purpose of this part.

L-19 wrote:I don't like the sound of that... Hope it wasn't you.

"Substantial damage means damage or failure which adversely affects the structural strength, performance, or flight characteristics of the aircraft, and which would normally require major repair or replacement of the affected component. Engine failure or damage limited to an engine if only one engine fails or is damaged, bent fairings or cowling, dented skin, small punctured holes in the skin or fabric, ground damage to rotor or propeller blades, and damage to landing gear, wheels, tires, flaps, engine accessories, brakes, or wingtips are not considered "substantial damage" for the purpose of this part."

Sounds like yes, but it's your interpretation of how bad the damage actually is. Sounds like a major repair from what you said.

Do not see it there. Looks like most ground loops would be off the hook also. Have never ground looped a 182 but am sure that with enough tries it can be done.

Tim

Jaerl wrote:I thought that if ya post it on here, you did report it to the FAA.

No doubt...if its on here. Its out...GLAD IT WAS NOT YOU! Go have your friend get a NASA form now...

If there is no intent of flight, the accident reporting requirements of NTSB 830 are not necessary and the FAA does not need to be notified.

The horses mouth

Super-Maule wrote:If there is no intent of flight, the accident reporting requirements of NTSB 830 are not necessary and the FAA does not need to be notified.

The horses mouth

See told ya

It's a trick question. You don't ever need to report an accident to the FAA. Qualifying accidents have to be reported to the NTSB.

No need to beat a horse here. Its not an accident. Its an incident: I do stand corrected.

[url] http://onlinepilotprep.com/private-pilot/ntsb-830//url]


So...
Sounds like to me that you can taxi down the runway with the intent to go fly (your the only one that knows that if your solo) and prior to reaching the taxiway you ground loop or run into the ditch or better yet...you have been flying (no one saw you land) and you go off into the ditch after departing the taxiway you can destroy your aircraft and just say your had no intent to fly so no need to report...???

Isn't there somewhere with the feds that say once you think that you understand them they change the rules?

Hopefully you really did not go off into the ditch and have a prop strike...I wonder what the Fed would have said had he been standing there watching this take place. ohhhh nice parking job..no need to report that or ....a letter in the mail in 4 months asking for remedial training..I dont know....interesting topic. Educate me

Gaawwwley! And here all this time I though it weren't reportable if it happened close enough to your hangar so you could quickly push all the parts inside and slam the door shut.

Seriously, I heard a story about a Husky owner who lived at one of those fly-in communities. Just got the plane brand new and bounced it hard on landing whilst getting checked out, tried to go around but screwed that up to, stalled, balled it up, came to rest upside down. Shoved it and the pieces all into his hangar and said not a word.

bumper wrote:Gaawwwley! And here all this time I though it weren't reportable if it happened close enough to your hangar so you could quickly push all the parts inside and slam the door shut.

Seriously, I heard a story about a Husky owner who lived at one of those fly-in communities. Just got the plane brand new and bounced it hard on landing whilst getting checked out, tried to go around but screwed that up to, stalled, balled it up, came to rest upside down. Shoved it and the pieces all into his hangar and said not a word.

And then is it still in there

"Aircraft accident means an occurrence associated with the operation of an aircraft which takes place between the time any person boards the aircraft with the intention of flight and all such persons have disembarked, and in which any person suffers death or serious injury, (this could be the kicker) or in which the aircraft receives substantial damage".

But if you're looking for insurance money? You might just turn it in to the insurance co and claim ignorance on the rest. oops now the cat's outa the bag you gotta report it I mean he does.

What happens if you ball it up IN the hangar?

hicountry wrote:What happens if you ball it up IN the hangar?

You didn't, did you??? Please say "No"!!