learntolandshort/Usernameguy hits a home run with this one.

You're right. That was awesome. Very good explanation. Even I could understand it.

That was fabulous. I've been struggling with full flap, slow approaches in my Maule MX7-180. If I don't add a fair amount of power on the descent, my sink rate gets really high and the flare doesn't arrest it. I've done some terrifying bounces playing around with lower power settings and slow approach speed with full flaps. I can grease it on with more speed and a bit of power on the approach and just 40 degrees of flaps rather than the full 48 degrees. As the video indicates, that configuration results in a lot of float time in ground effect, making pinpoint landings impossible. On a 1500 foot grass strip that configuration is fine, but it wouldn't work with an 800' strip. I can also make an acceptable short landing by hanging on the prop with a fair amount more power during a slow approach. With about 1500 - 1600 RPM, my sink rate drops down to a manageable 200 - 300 fpm. The problem with dragging it in with power is the pickle it would put me in if I ever lost the engine on short final while I still had trees under me. I'd love to go flying with another Maule driver that could demonstrate the proper balance of speed and power to accomplish a steep approach without hanging on the prop and without bouncing like a super ball.

It actually part of a series we're developing for the BCP Knowledge Base. Patrick has a great article writeup that goes along with this that will get published here early next week.

We are lucky that we have competent people in the community producing this kind of content.

Um...that last little segment illustrating a Carbon Cub bounce.....the pilot's left hand was firmly planted on the V Brace....right up to and through touchdown.

THAT is a REALLY bad habit to get into.

MTV

Flyhound wrote:That was fabulous. I've been struggling with full flap, slow approaches in my Maule MX7-180. If I don't add a fair amount of power on the descent, my sink rate gets really high and the flare doesn't arrest it. I've done some terrifying bounces playing around with lower power settings and slow approach speed with full flaps. I can grease it on with more speed and a bit of power on the approach and just 40 degrees of flaps rather than the full 48 degrees. As the video indicates, that configuration results in a lot of float time in ground effect, making pinpoint landings impossible. On a 1500 foot grass strip that configuration is fine, but it wouldn't work with an 800' strip. I can also make an acceptable short landing by hanging on the prop with a fair amount more power during a slow approach. With about 1500 - 1600 RPM, my sink rate drops down to a manageable 200 - 300 fpm. The problem with dragging it in with power is the pickle it would put me in if I ever lost the engine on short final while I still had trees under me. I'd love to go flying with another Maule driver that could demonstrate the proper balance of speed and power to accomplish a steep approach without hanging on the prop and without bouncing like a super ball.

Flyhound...

I struggled with landing my Maule for years (I too have an MX180c). I think I've finally found what works for me. Downwind I set the power to give me 80MPH. I then put in one notch of flaps when I am abeam of the numbers, which slows me to 70MPH (round numbers). Turning base, I put in my second notch, which slows me to 60MPH. On final, I go to 48 degrees and it gives me a sink rate of 3-350 FPM. Landing with 40 degrees means you will carry too much speed on roll-out - Eventually, it will bite you (especially in an x-wind)

I think you want all the flaps you can get in the Maule to dissipate speed/energy on roll-out. Maules are squirrely on roll-out; its just a fact of owning one of these birds.

To adress an engine out situation: I don't put my last notch in until I am sure, no matter what, that I am going to make the runway.

I've been pretty busy at work the last few months and finally got out to do some T&G's today. I have to tell you I was just plum nervous on my first couple of landings. The Maule will teach you humility when you least expect it!!!

Excellent video!

mtv wrote:Um...that last little segment illustrating a Carbon Cub bounce.....the pilot's left hand was firmly planted on the V Brace....right up to and through touchdown.

THAT is a REALLY bad habit to get into.

MTV

MTV, I'm not sure I see what you see. I see his left hand go from the throttle to the flap handle?

Flyhound wrote:That was fabulous. I've been struggling with full flap, slow approaches in my Maule MX7-180. If I don't add a fair amount of power on the descent, my sink rate gets really high and the flare doesn't arrest it. I've done some terrifying bounces playing around with lower power settings and slow approach speed with full flaps. I can grease it on with more speed and a bit of power on the approach and just 40 degrees of flaps rather than the full 48 degrees. As the video indicates, that configuration results in a lot of float time in ground effect, making pinpoint landings impossible. On a 1500 foot grass strip that configuration is fine, but it wouldn't work with an 800' strip. I can also make an acceptable short landing by hanging on the prop with a fair amount more power during a slow approach. With about 1500 - 1600 RPM, my sink rate drops down to a manageable 200 - 300 fpm. The problem with dragging it in with power is the pickle it would put me in if I ever lost the engine on short final while I still had trees under me. I'd love to go flying with another Maule driver that could demonstrate the proper balance of speed and power to accomplish a steep approach without hanging on the prop and without bouncing like a super ball.

Hound, Take your Maule up to altitude and try this to maybe give you a different result??
Now this is just my $.02 and some will holler but I think there are not to many who have worked a Maule consistently into way short and rough spots, I have at least 3-5 hours doing this

Slow down to about 50 and then start bring in some flaps, when you have full flaps set your power at about 1300 RPM(+/_200),
Get it slowed down to the bottom of the White arc.
Now keep just enough power to hold this altitude.
When stable there and comfortable, as you pull the yoke back pull the power back to idle.
You should be able to have the yoke all the way back and the power all the way off, with full flaps you should now have 700fpm Nose high decent!
If you do this with first notch of flaps you will be a bit faster but @ 500fpm.

Now when you are comfortable doing this you have to know that your ailerons (DO NOT SCREW WITH THE AILERONS!! KEEP THEM NEUTRAL!)are neutral and you are using your rudder to keep everything level with nose up!(WORK YOUR FEET THAT IS WHY YOU HAVE THEM!)

Now just for grins, as you push the nose slightly forward come in with a couple hundred RPM And see if you can't slow the airspeed down to about 40 at that moment and also notice that your sink has stopped
That's where you want to be when your wheels touch the ground (You were still at 1500' right?)

Just my thoughts and the way I was taught to land my Maule where I needed to be as slow as I could and under complete control!
It worked pretty well for me!

Have fun and ride with all you can!
This is just my take on it, you know how much internet advice is worth!!
You can also do this in a full side slip to make it very much steeper and slower, but you might want to wait until you get the first part down !!

If you need some great instruction or comments get in touch with Jeremy, he can show and tell about as well as anyone!!

Great video, great photography and commentary.
Cudo's for you guys doing this
Will help a bunch of people!!
Will make them think and ask questions and maybe try something different!

Hey Jaudette: Where is your tach during this? Manifold pressure won't hardly register, but the tach gives some indication of how much power you're coming in with. My problem is that my plane has a vernier control on the throttle and pressing the detent and pulling all the way back doesn't cut the power. I need to press the detent, pull all the way back and then start unscrewing the thing, If I goose it before touching down to slow my descent, getting rid of that power isn't instantaneous.

Same question for M6RV6 - This weekend I will go play around at altitude as you recommended. The weather is supposed to be clear and cold and its been a couple of weeks since I got my wheels off the ground. Last week we had some clear weather, but the turf strip was soggy from all the melting snow, and the homeowner's association closed it.

Flyhound wrote:Hey Jaudette: Where is your tach during this? Manifold pressure won't hardly register, but the tach gives some indication of how much power you're coming in with. My problem is that my plane has a vernier control on the throttle and pressing the detent and pulling all the way back doesn't cut the power. I need to press the detent, pull all the way back and then start unscrewing the thing,

If I goose it before touching down to slow my descent, getting rid of that power isn't instantaneous.

You are not GOOSING anything!! Just roll it to the right a few turns a little bit earlier than you are doing now, catch up to your plane, sounds like you might be just a little behind it?? You're just adding a couple hundred RPM's and when you touch down and come on hard with the brakes you can shed the power then.

Same question for M6RV6 - This weekend I will go play around at altitude as you recommended. The weather is supposed to be clear and cold and its been a couple of weeks since I got my wheels off the ground. Last week we had some clear weather, but the turf strip was soggy from all the melting snow, and the homeowner's association closed it.

Subtle movements!!
Remember BE SAFE!!

mountainmatt wrote:Excellent video!

mtv wrote:Um...that last little segment illustrating a Carbon Cub bounce.....the pilot's left hand was firmly planted on the V Brace....right up to and through touchdown.

THAT is a REALLY bad habit to get into.

MTV

MTV, I'm not sure I see what you see. I see his left hand go from the throttle to the flap handle?

Yeah, Mike. Remember the CC flap handles are overhead.

Flyhound - I'm going up in the morning and will video my instruments during approach and landing. I too have the v-style throttle and I keep the button pushed in from base to final to stop. Power is one of the only things that will get you out of a jam.

Hope it will help you.

Jim

Owning a Maule is a constant learning experience. I like the fact that they always demand your attention. There is no resting on your laurels with these planes and that keeps my pea brain active. It's great to always have something to work on.

I really enjoyed this video also! Great explanations and visual's! Looking forward to more

I enjoyed the video, thank you. Very informative.

I do have one question about the type of approach he is suggesting. Perhaps one of our super-high-time back country pilots can address this...

The stabilized approach on the back side of the drag curve looks like it works real well, however it seems to me that a good gust, downdraft, dust devil, etc. on final could easily stall a wing with very little warning, and a high chance of a wreck. It looks to me like you are operating in a higher risk position (little reserve energy) for a much longer period of time.

In calm morning air, it would seem that this is not a problem. But at any time the air was active from heat, wind, weather, etc. it sure seems to me that flying around close to the terrain, in a higher risk configuration, would bite someone sooner than later.

How do the highly experienced bush pilots reconcile this apparent risk?

Nice work Patrick!

EZFlap wrote:I enjoyed the video, thank you. Very informative.

I do have one question about the type of approach he is suggesting. Perhaps one of our super-high-time back country pilots can address this...

The stabilized approach on the back side of the drag curve looks like it works real well, however it seems to me that a good gust, downdraft, dust devil, etc. on final could easily stall a wing with very little warning, and a high chance of a wreck. It looks to me like you are operating in a higher risk position (little reserve energy) for a much longer period of time.

In calm morning air, it would seem that this is not a problem. But at any time the air was active from heat, wind, weather, etc. it sure seems to me that flying around close to the terrain, in a higher risk configuration, would bite someone sooner than later.

How do the highly experienced bush pilots reconcile this apparent risk?

Your right. it can get you into trouble. You have to be smart about it and fly the conditions. It would be foolish flying deep behind "drag curve" in unstable, convective windy conditions, More experience pilots who know there machines well can assess how far back behind the DC vrs conditions they can operate safely. That's where flying a lot and using discretion pays off.

Wind is not always your enemy. Steady wind on an overcast day can be your friend when trying to squeeze into some tight spots. Just have to be mindful of wind speed gradient. A sharp reduction in wind speed can be encountered as the approach gets below 50+ feet. Just be ready for it with a little extra speed and power.

I'm not a highly experienced bush pilot...

I asked Patrick this exact same question during the filming of one of these segments. The response much as you would imagine - if the air is gusting you should not be attempting a really short landing. You should be increasing your airspeed to compensate - which will undoubtedly increase your landing distances.

If your plane is twitchy with a propincity to break heavily and stall 1 wing - you will need added margin in the form of extra airspeed. The planes in this video - including Patrick's long wing M7 - don't stall suddenly.

Everything is a shade of grey...

Oh, and for sure - Patrick's is working the overhead flap handle. But his hand was on the throttle until after touchdown.

EZFlap wrote:The stabilized approach on the back side of the drag curve looks like it works real well, however it seems to me that a good gust, downdraft, dust devil, etc. on final could easily stall a wing with very little warning, and a high chance of a wreck. It looks to me like you are operating in a higher risk position (little reserve energy) for a much longer period of time.

In calm morning air, it would seem that this is not a problem. But at any time the air was active from heat, wind, weather, etc. it sure seems to me that flying around close to the terrain, in a higher risk configuration, would bite someone sooner than later.

How do the highly experienced bush pilots reconcile this apparent risk?

Great video, and a fantastic addition to the website. Looking forward to reading the accompanying article as well. Apart from what was mentioned above re. wind it might also be good to point out that this approach doesn't fit every aircraft. I was taught to stay well clear of the back side of the power curve in a beaver...