Backcountry Pilot • Fire - From the Horses Mouth...

Fire - From the Horses Mouth...

Debrief, share, and hopefully learn from the mistakes of others.
15 postsPage 1 of 1

Fire - From the Horses Mouth...

Hi Folks,

I'm not a big fan of my story being told and my images being posted without my permission (as in another thread) so here's the story of my RANS S-6S fire and some lessons I've learned from this incident.

I competed my S-6 in 2011 and put about 100 hours on it before I flew it to Oshkosh 2012. This was my second homebuilt that I completed and flew, and it was a fantastic airplane. It was equipped with a Dynon panel and a Rotax 912S engine.

Image

One of the issues I had from the start was oil temps a little higher than normal. So on the flight to Oshkosh, the temps were higher than I think they should have been. Randy Schlitter recommended a put a few spacers on the two screws on the side of the cowling to let more air flow out of the engine compartment. I did that on the ground at Oshkosh, and was excited for the flight home to see if it would have any affect on temps.

Departing Oshkosh, my dad was with me and we noticed that the temps did indeed come down. We stopped at Hartford, WI on the way home to Michigan because they sell auto gas at the airport.

After topping off the tanks, I pushed the plane away from the tanks so that my buddy could fill his Kitfox with fuel.

As soon as I turned the key to start the engine, I noticed "steam" coming from the louvers on the top of the cowl. My first thought was that it was odd that the engine would be overheating as the temps had been fine. But it looked just like steam (like when your car overheats).

So I turned the key off, and was in no hurry but took my seat belt off to get out and take a look. As I walked around the left wing and approached the front of the plane, just then the paint started to sizzle on the cowling! I looked into the air intakes and the entire engine compartment was engulfed in flames. I told my dad, "it's on fire-get out!".

The "steam" was actually smoke, but it was so thin that it looked like steam.

Obviously I ran back to the fuel pumps to get the fire extinguisher that all airports are required to have. There were none there!

There was nothing I could do at that point, so me and my dad spent a few minutes getting as much of out baggage out as we could.

Now the fire was roaring...

Image

The fire progressed right past the firewall and into the cabin.

At this point we thought it would explode when the fire reached the tanks so we got back about 100 feet and stood behind a dumpster!

Image

When the fire did reach the tanks, it didn't explode, but it was a pretty fantastic fireball! Then we just stood back and watching the wings collapse and the fire spread aft.

Image

At this point the fire department was already called, but since they had to come from town, it took them a while to get there. By the time they arrived, there was nothing left.

Image

So what happened?

No one knows because there was nothing left to inspect. But it had to be something with the starter as the smoke started as soon as I turned the key. I believe it shorted out and the current then melted the battery cables.

As I mentioned in my thread on the RANS CLAN forums, I had a fire extinguisher in my first homebuilt, and was going to put one in this airplane, but I just never thought about it when I was at home and could order one. So the plan was to install one, I just hadn't got around to it yet.

I'm not sure a small cockpit fire extinguisher could have put out the roaring fire in the engine compartment anyway, but I would have tried.

I also have always wondered if I made a mistake in the wiring. Did I not have a circuit protection somewhere where I should have? Unfortunately I don't have the wiring diagram to go over it today.

Currently I am building a Zenith Cruzer and at the same time a Kitfox (which I hope to bring out West someday) and on the Cruzer, I once again designed the entire electrical system. But this time, once I drew it out, I sent the drawing to SteinAir and paid them to look it over, check the wire sizes, and add any circuit protection I may have missed. The only thing they had to add over an over-voltage protection. So I feel more confident in this plane's electrical system.

The one smart thing I did do was carry a large insurance policy on the airplane. Don't over look this on your planes or carry the bare minimum. I had mine insured actually for a lot more than I think it was worth. The premium may have been slightly more, but it was worth it. No one ever thinks they will need to use their insurance, but you never know. Especially if you guys are out landing on sandbars and mountain tops! That's super fun but I imagine that there is room for only a small margin of error.

One last thing I'd like to add is to think about the clothing you wear during flight. The military wears flight suits for a reason. I've thought about this and I would feel pretty dumb wearing flight suit in a Zenith Cruzer, but maybe it's a good insurance policy should you need a few extra minutes to get out?

I have about 100 photos from start to finish of the fire. One of the next videos I've been wanting to make on my YouTube channel is a story about the fire, and to cycle through all the pics to show how the fire starts and progresses. If you're interested in seeing the video (and watching the Cruzer and Kitfox build, my channel is called "KitplaneEnthusiast".
KitplaneEnthusiast offline
User avatar
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:54 am
Location: Linden
Aircraft: CH-750 Cruzer N437MD

Re: Fire - From the Horses Mouth...

Thanks for posting this Mark. Personally, I doubt Zzz meant any harm in the original post and only meant it as an 'informative and knowledge' based post. Zzz has an awesome site here an is always looking to better aviation. Again, thanks for logging in and welcome to the site!
WWhunter offline
Supporter
User avatar
Posts: 2036
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2005 1:54 pm
Location: Minnesota
Aircraft: RANS S-7
Murphy Rebel
VANS RV-8

Re: Fire - From the Horses Mouth...

I'm sure it must have been a sad day for you. That was one beautiful airplane. Cant imagine you having to stand there and watch it burn!
Thanks much for your post, which provides some good lessons for us all. Glad your ok!

Ron
On The Fly offline
Supporter
User avatar
Posts: 199
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:56 pm
Location: Hampton
Aircraft: C`182K

Re: Fire - From the Horses Mouth...

Sorry about the plane, but in todays world, I for one don't feel anyone needed to get your permission to post those pictures. Once they are out there, posted by you elsewhere, they are out of your control, just a fact of life these days. And you have to admit, they are pretty spectacular! The airframe's 4130 burning through was....interesting, wow.

Back to the fire: I have always used a master switch, and lately a mechanical master switch so if I forget to turn it off it doesn't drain the battery. My first kitplane I built in '88, when Tony Bingelis of EEA fame had a great book out (I'd think it's still available through EAA) called "Firewall Forward". Clear concise explanation on how to do what, and why. Of course being able to totally deaden/kill your electrical system AFTER the fire had already started may not have helped a bit, just a thought. I do know that in the RANS kit manual they kind of gloss over the need or use of a master, at least I have seen many not bother to use one. When I pull mine, the only hot wire in the plane is about 8" long, all others inert.

Twice in the last 20 years, once when going off the edge of a narrow high banked dirt road, and another time when unexpectatly encountering some waist high sagebrush (long story) to my surprise as well as dealing with controlling the airplane (S-7S) I also, when it was clear a "runway diversion" was going to happen, I killed the master before things went south. It didn't matter in the end, but it sure is a nice option to have.
courierguy offline
User avatar
Posts: 4197
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:52 pm
Location: Idaho
"Its easier to apologize then ask permission"
Tex McClatchy

Re: Fire - From the Horses Mouth...

Hey! Welcome to BCP! I can tell you're sincerely excited to be here.

For the record, KitplaneEnthusiast joined BCP to send me a message informing me "someone" had stolen his copyrighted photos and posted them here. He seemed angry.

KitplaneEnthusiast wrote:Hi Folks,

I'm not a big fan of my story being told...


No one told your story but you. Your ransclan forum thread is public and easily found in a Google search for "rans fairing," which is how I found it. I linked directly to your forum and your thread, and embedded your images you own and manage on photobucket. I gave a one-sentence paraphrase of the incident figuring other internet-savvy surfers would read the story on your website.

This was explained to you at greater length and with more politeness than you deserve in my response to your angry complaint of "copyright violation." At no time were any images copied to backcountrypilot.org. They are embedded by reference URL. You still have the power to restrict that.

If you recall, I also offered to remove any reference or links to your website out of respect for a situation that maybe was more sensitive than I estimated. But here you are, posting about it yourself and promoting yourself in the much more popular forum that supposedly violated your copyright. Ha!

I can give you some dual instruction on web server configuration if you'd like to achieve a privacy level that prevents this. Or, maybe take a look around at how stories on the web are linked and credit attributed.
Zzz offline
Janitorial Staff
User avatar
Posts: 2854
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 11:09 pm
Location: northern
Aircraft: Swiveling desk chair
Half a century spent proving “it is better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.”

Re: Fire - From the Horses Mouth...

I understand losing your head during something like this...I’ve been there.

Image
whee offline
User avatar
Posts: 3386
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 1:59 pm
Location: SE Idaho

Re: Fire - From the Horses Mouth...

whee wrote:I understand losing your head during something like this...I’ve been there.

Image


Ouch...
Hammer offline
KB and Supporter
User avatar
Posts: 2094
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:15 am
Location: 742 Evergreen Terrace

Re: Fire - From the Horses Mouth...

whee wrote:I understand losing your head during something like this...I’ve been there.

Image


Maybe it was...er...I mean, hopefully it was well insured #-o
bart offline
User avatar
Posts: 545
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:54 pm
Location: Fresno, CA
FindMeSpot URL: http://share.findmespot.com/shared/face ... 1ZTy9zAEWv
Aircraft: Cessna 180

Re: Fire - From the Horses Mouth...

Well, the important thing is that now KitplaneEnthusiast is a member...

Welcome!
Hammer offline
KB and Supporter
User avatar
Posts: 2094
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:15 am
Location: 742 Evergreen Terrace

Re: Fire - From the Horses Mouth...

Agree. Welcome. I am very empathetic for the loss of your plane. Thanks for the excellent advice about carrying hull insurance. I have collected once on mine, and know several others who had the same need.
PapernScissors offline
Posts: 419
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2016 8:49 pm
Location: Spokane
Aircraft: Cessna 172

Re: Fire - From the Horses Mouth...

Maybe you had a backfire? I had to use a fire extinguisher on a C140 when the air filter caught fire during startup. I probably over-primed. Maybe it didn’t have anything to do with your wiring.
StuBob offline
Posts: 293
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:52 am
Location: Indianapolis
Aircraft: Cessna 185 Skywagon

Re: Fire - From the Horses Mouth...

Zzz wrote:Hey! Welcome to BCP! I can tell you're sincerely excited to be here.

For the record, KitplaneEnthusiast joined BCP to send me a message informing me "someone" had stolen his copyrighted photos and posted them here. He seemed angry.

KitplaneEnthusiast wrote:Hi Folks,

I'm not a big fan of my story being told...


No one told your story but you. Your ransclan forum thread is public and easily found in a Google search for "rans fairing," which is how I found it. I linked directly to your forum and your thread, and embedded your images you own and manage on photobucket. I gave a one-sentence paraphrase of the incident figuring other internet-savvy surfers would read the story on your website.

This was explained to you at greater length and with more politeness than you deserve in my response to your angry complaint of "copyright violation." At no time were any images copied to backcountrypilot.org. They are embedded by reference URL. You still have the power to restrict that.

If you recall, I also offered to remove any reference or links to your website out of respect for a situation that maybe was more sensitive than I estimated. But here you are, posting about it yourself and promoting yourself in the much more popular forum that supposedly violated your copyright. Ha!

I can give you some dual instruction on web server configuration if you'd like to achieve a privacy level that prevents this. Or, maybe take a look around at how stories on the web are linked and credit attributed.


Zzz,

My apologies if you thought I was angry-I was not. You may have gotten that impression because I just came back from 11 days away from home for work and I had 52 billion e-mails and online things to tend to, so my message to you was short and to the point so I could move on to the next "fire".

I did see that you didn't just repost the photos, but you did link them. On my old computer, there was no indication it was linked-it just showed the photos. So my apologies. On my two other computers, it showed a link. The reason I don't like people reposting my original photos (that yes, belong to me) is because I've found them on other sites where people, who weren't there, don't know me, and have no idea what happened, say things like, "the pilot didn't ground his airplane during fueling and it caught on fire..." There is so much mis-information out there from people who have no idea what they are talking about and I don' t want my airplane pictures being included in posts like that (not that yours was like that).

It took me 3 years of hard work to build that beautiful airplane, and if people are going to look at pics of it on fire, I want them to know the story, and also I want to caution them and educate them if possible so that this doesn't happen to anyone else's pride and joy.

FYI-I actually have an account here that I started many years ago but could not log in. When trying to reset my password didn't work, I searched and searched for a way to contact admin, but couldn't find any link anywhere. Maybe something to look into?

Back to flying....
KitplaneEnthusiast offline
User avatar
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:54 am
Location: Linden
Aircraft: CH-750 Cruzer N437MD

Re: Fire - From the Horses Mouth...

I really don't think it was a backfire. I would hear that right? As I remember it, literally the instant I turned the key the smoke started. So the prop probably didn't even go through one revolution with the starter. This was a Rotax 912 engine which is extremely popular and reliable on a lot of smaller kitplanes, and the only thing I can think of is that the starter shorted out. I could certainly be wrong though, it's just that that is the only thing that makes sense to me.
KitplaneEnthusiast offline
User avatar
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:54 am
Location: Linden
Aircraft: CH-750 Cruzer N437MD

Re: Fire - From the Horses Mouth...

I did have a master solenoid installed, and the first thing I did was shut everything off. Here's what I think that didn't matter...

On the Rotax 912 engine, it has two carbs and two paper air filters hanging off the back side of the carbs. Coming out of the carb is a small tube about 6" long that is secured to the air filter. I don't remember exactly what that line does, but it has something to do with extra fuel in the carb-the fuel travels through the line and drips into the air filter. This sound odd, but it's factory set up like that by Rotax.

Now here's the problem-my battery cable ran right under the right side air filter. So if the starter shorted out and that cable caught on fire, well it's sitting right below a fuel-soaked paper air filter! That's what I think happened. Once the fire hit the air filter, it just went out of control.

I'm not sure if the current (non-fuel injected) Rotax's have the same set up, but if they do, I think it's a pretty dumb set up. Your first thought might be to replace those 6" hoses with longer ones and run the drain out the bottom. Sounds like a great idea, but you can't do that. That is how I originally ran my hoses, and my engine just would not run right. After not being able to get the engine running correctly, I called Rotax and while trying to trouble shoot over the phone he finally asked me if I changed those lines. I said yes and he immediately knew what the problem was. He said that you can not change the length of those hoses (don't remember why), so I put the original ones back on and the engine ran like a champ!
KitplaneEnthusiast offline
User avatar
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:54 am
Location: Linden
Aircraft: CH-750 Cruzer N437MD

Re: Fire - From the Horses Mouth...

KitplaneEnthusiast wrote:My apologies if you thought I was angry-I was not.


There were several words in all capitals. That's the effect those have. 8)

KitplaneEnthusiast wrote:FYI-I actually have an account here that I started many years ago but could not log in. When trying to reset my password didn't work, I searched and searched for a way to contact admin, but couldn't find any link anywhere. Maybe something to look into?
.


You can always visit the help page: https://backcountrypilot.org/help. In the first paragraph it gives the help email: 7700@

It's linked from the "Base" menu with other standard pages like "About."

PM me if you'd like to resume your original account.
Zzz offline
Janitorial Staff
User avatar
Posts: 2854
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 11:09 pm
Location: northern
Aircraft: Swiveling desk chair
Half a century spent proving “it is better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.”

DISPLAY OPTIONS

15 postsPage 1 of 1

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

Latest Features

Latest Knowledge Base