Firewall battery regrets?

Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:56 am

Re: Firewall battery regrets?

I have been happy with the Odyssey firewall battery so far. I am not sure exactly how much weight was saved since I did a lot of avionics work at the same time. My plane is a lot lighter now and will go on the scales soon. The new battery cranks better and I love the easy access. There is definitely a shift in CG but not as noticeable as I thought. Definitely worth the weight savings. It has to be the greatest weight savings per/dollar mod out there. I can't think of a scenario for me where I won't have 50 lbs in the extended baggage. I typically fly with one other person, the dog and a lot of camping gear.

Dog is my Copilot offline

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Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:15 pm

Re: Firewall battery regrets?

I did it because it shed about 20 lbs. Smaller battery and no huge cable under the floor!

lefoy84 offline

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Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:17 am

Re: Firewall battery regrets?

Dog is my Copilot wrote:…. I am not sure exactly how much weight was saved since I did a lot of avionics work at the same time. ….. There is definitely a shift in CG but not as noticeable as I thought.....

My C180 was converted to a firewall mounted Odyssey by the previous owner.
Using his figures, the net weight loss was 13 pounds & the CG was moved forward 2".

hotrod180 offline: Posts: 10534; Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 11:47 pm; Location: Port Townsend, WA

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Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:15 am

Re: Firewall battery regrets?

No regrets whatsoever. One of the most useful mods available for a 180/185 when paired with an Atlee extended baggage kit, in my opinion. My 185D only had the hat rack shelf though, so adding the ext baggage opened up a lot more space. Shaved nearly 20 lbs, better cranking power and the ability to warm the battery at the firewall while pre-heating. As for C of G, it’s noticeable (especially on wheel skis) but minimal. After the winter gear is put in the back it evens out. Wouldn’t hesitate to do the same mods again.

upnorth180 offline

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Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:17 pm

Re: Firewall battery regrets?

Can anyone offer information on doing this for a 28V Skywagon? I am currently in the middle of an avionics upgrade, and thought this was a slam dunk, but the shop doing this part of the work wasn't familiar of being able to install a 28V battery on the firewall - they've only seen it down with a 12V setup and are searching for other STC's now.

Additionally, thoughts on Odyssey vs. EarthX? Sounds like you need a field approval for the EarthX - but woudl be curious to hear input on if there is an approved 337 out there for the EarthX, and why some might choose that over the Odyssey.

Thanks for the input!

chugachman offline

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Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:03 pm

Re: Firewall battery regrets?

Question on the Earth X batteries. Can you jump or boost them same as a regular battery?

A1Skinner offline

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Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:07 pm

Re: Firewall battery regrets?

A1Skinner wrote:Question on the Earth X batteries. Can you jump or boost them same as a regular battery?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTMdEe9 ... yA&index=5

nonrev offline: Posts: 47; Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 8:29 pm; Location: Colorado

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Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:20 pm

Re: Firewall battery regrets?

nonrev wrote:
A1Skinner wrote:Question on the Earth X batteries. Can you jump or boost them same as a regular battery?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTMdEe9 ... yA&index=5

So do you have to use this jump pack for the battery? Or can I use my NOCO one? Or can I just hook up battery cables to it? Same with trickle charging. Can i use my regular charger or do I need a special one from Earth X?

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Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:01 am

Re: Firewall battery regrets?

chugachman wrote:.....Additionally, thoughts on Odyssey vs. EarthX? Sounds like you need a field approval for the EarthX - but woudl be curious to hear input on if there is an approved 337 out there for the EarthX, and why some might choose that over the Odyssey.....

Given all the hassle of getting an approval for an EarthX battery,
I'm curious as to what the advantage is of one of those vs an easily-approved Odyssey.

hotrod180 offline: Posts: 10534; Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 11:47 pm; Location: Port Townsend, WA

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Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:56 am

Re: Firewall battery regrets?

hotrod180 wrote:
chugachman wrote:.....Additionally, thoughts on Odyssey vs. EarthX? Sounds like you need a field approval for the EarthX - but woudl be curious to hear input on if there is an approved 337 out there for the EarthX, and why some might choose that over the Odyssey.....

Given all the hassle of getting an approval for an EarthX battery,
I'm curious as to what the advantage is of one of those vs an easily-approved Odyssey.

In favor of the Earth X battery: It's several pounds lighter than the Odyssey. That's about it, frankly.

In favor of the Odyssey: It is a basic lead acid battery, therefore relatively easy to approve. It's lighter by several pounds that a stock 25 amp battery, but heavier than the Earth X.

Also, the Odyssey has a pretty long history of performance, with very few problems. I've been using them for going on 25 years now, and they are remarkably durable and reliable.

Lithium batteries in general, have experienced some negatives in service, though it appears Earth X has most or all of these resolved. Lithium batteries don't like to be fully discharged. Earth X has a safety circuit to prevent deep discharge. The lithium technology that Earth X is using is much safer than early lithium batteries. The track record of these batteries in aircraft service is short, but growing.

Primarily, weight seems to be the big advantage of the Earth X battery. Good news is, it also drains your wallet, compared to an Odyssey, so lightens you up in a couple ways.

MTV

mtv offline

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Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:05 pm

Re: Firewall battery regrets?

I’ve had great performance from my earth-x. I can just about taxi on the starter.

Unfortunately due to some work events, my plane has had the pleasure of sitting for some extended periods.

My battery has never missed a beat. Never needed a charge that didn’t come from my alternator.

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Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:07 pm

Re: Firewall battery regrets?

Here's my experience with the Firewall Battery - note Airplane is a 180H on Straight Aerocet Floats.

1. Great mod, felt awesome ripping out lots of weight + cables + Aux
2. CG felt fine with 2 bladed Seaplane prop and 470-R
3. When I changed to SPW Mount + PPONK + 3 Blade Hartzell CG is now too far forward I was hoping to compensate by removing vaccum and lightening avionics but no luck.

I've been experimenting with Water Bottles in the rear and survival kit to get the CG right, but it's a bit inconsistent as sometimes I have a passenger and sometimes not I will probably try a lead ballast in tailcone next.

I am looking into the new Hartzell composite prop as it is lighter, also interested in the MT 2 blade as it will probably shed even more weight but hopefully fix CG again.

nickelb offline

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Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:37 am

Re: Firewall battery regrets?

nickelb wrote:Here's my experience with the Firewall Battery - note Airplane is a 180H on Straight Aerocet Floats.

1. Great mod, felt awesome ripping out lots of weight + cables + Aux
2. CG felt fine with 2 bladed Seaplane prop and 470-R
3. When I changed to SPW Mount + PPONK + 3 Blade Hartzell CG is now too far forward I was hoping to compensate by removing vaccum and lightening avionics but no luck.

I've been experimenting with Water Bottles in the rear and survival kit to get the CG right, but it's a bit inconsistent as sometimes I have a passenger and sometimes not I will probably try a lead ballast in tailcone next.

I am looking into the new Hartzell composite prop as it is lighter, also interested in the MT 2 blade as it will probably shed even more weight but hopefully fix CG again.

You’d like the composite props on floats. Water erosion is pretty much a non event, because of nickel leading edges. And weight savings is excellent, which on floats is huge.

MTV

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Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:06 am

Re: Firewall battery regrets?

Thanks MTV, yes I agree, I think it's going to be my next big purchase/upgrade. Looking forward to it - has anyone heard any news on the Hartzell one? I have sent a few mails to them but no answer yet.

nickelb offline

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Mon Oct 12, 2020 3:32 pm

Re: Firewall battery regrets?

Hartzell expects to start test flying the Carbon fiber version of the Voyager prop in early 2021 from what I've been told.

MW

185Midwest offline

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Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:05 pm

Re: Firewall battery regrets?

I spent the better part of October looking into this problem.

So for my 180 the mods are:
1. Remove Rear Battery, APU, Battery Cable
2. Firewall Battery
3. Hartzell 3 blade prop [Metal one]
4. PPonk, Seaplanes West Motor Mount
5. Modern Garmin Avionics
6. Aerocet Floats

All of this moves the CG forward. I did some weighing and experimentation by moving a case of water bottles around - thanks to the awesome folks at Kenmore Air to get a better understanding of it.

Next year's solution is going to be going down to a lighter prop. In the meantime, a heavy survival kit, and toolkit, in the back of the plane along with emergency water. Depending on fuel and PAX configuration it's around 50+lbs in the rear luggage to get things right.

A word of caution to other 180/185 drivers, if you've done the firewall battery mod, and are on a 3 blade metal prop, your CG is probably further forward than you think, especially if you have not weighed your plane in a long time.

nickelb offline

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Fri Oct 30, 2020 10:43 am

Re: Firewall battery regrets?

185Midwest wrote:Hartzell expects to start test flying the Carbon fiber version of the Voyager prop in early 2021 from what I've been told.

MW

Here in Alaska, two 180s with Texas Skyways engines have gotten approved via 337 for that prop.

akaviator offline

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Sat Oct 31, 2020 2:45 pm

Re: Firewall battery regrets?

AK-

That's not the Composite Voyager they are flying via 337. Hartzell has a number of composite props flying but they have not certified the Composite Voyager as of yet. Ive been wrong before but I'm pretty sure they are not flying the Composite Voyager prop yet.

MW

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Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:34 am