What are your go/no go thought processes for flying in the winter. I am not talking about in the mountains in snowing weather, just flying in temperatures close to or below freezing. I know that you guys up north do it all the time, or you would only get to fly a few months a year. Being from Texas, I tend to tell myself that it's too cold. This cold snap is a perfect example, where I am at we did not get all of the moisture, just the cold. I would like to take advantage of the smother air and not have to sweat my ass off to fly. .

Thanks

Most outfits I worked for up north had temp cut-offs of -30 to -35 for the piston equipment and -40 for the turbine. But there were always warmer inversion layers a few feet up, so we flew colder.

I flew a few times at -60, and it scared the shit outta me. Nothing works right, tires pop when you land, and you're hosed if you crash and get hurt.

The secret is to do everything REAL SLOW!!! Pre heat, add power, reduce power. Slow......


Gump

At 32f... Enjoy the cool air!!!!!

That's what I was hoping you would say. There's not any moisture, just cold.

Any special engine concerns?

I generally fly anything down to 0 without hesitation, as long as I have adequate time for preheat and proper gear onboard. (-30 bag, bivy, tent, and stove).

I'll fly 0 to 20 below, but I have to have a pretty good reason to want to be out there. Generally the pain of preheating at those temps is enough to dissuade me from wanting to fly for fun. That, and the fact that everything starts to break when you get much below zero.

My father in law spent a night out at - 40 one time hunting coyotes. He had heavy clothes, but no sleeping bag. Said he walked an entire 1/2 mile circle completely bare grubbing sagebrush for his little fire over the course of the night. Makes me shiver thinking about it.

The Iditarod Air Force used to publish a cold weather checklist. But, it's gone from the website.

Some item covered,

* carburetor heat - starting, flying, taxiing
* water in the fuel - additives
* covering - oil coolers, pressure cowls
* preheating - times, methods, batteries (storing oil, batteries indoors)
* whiteouts
* cabin heating - preflight and enroute
* ice screws for tie downs
* overflow on lakes, rivers
* freezing time for ice
* lake and river warm areas, melt/freeze patterns
* tips on ski maneuvering
* extreme density altitude adjustments covering carburetor intake manifold

If I find the checklist forward.

The coldest I flew in when I was learning to fly in Alaska was -30F. A lot of my training was well below zero, though, because I had my first lesson the end of November 72 and took my checkride in February 73. The airplanes of the EDF Aeroclub were hangared in a heated hangar, so starting wasn't a problem, but keeping them going was. In those extreme temps, sometimes it was necessary to run with the carb heat on so that the fuel would atomize properly.

After leaving Uncle's flying corps, I think the coldest I have flown in is about -20F, but many times closer to zero F. The hardest part about most of those flights is getting the engine started, and preheating is almost a requirement. In earlier times, we didn't have the nice Tanis and Reiff heater systems, so preheating was done with salamanders, for the most part. Of course, that meant some melted stuff and burned paint jobs at times--not every ramp rabbit was as careful as he should have been.

One of the issues, of course, is staying warm. Most airplane heaters aren't good for much lower than 20F, and most defrosters are pretty anemic. When taxiing, it's best to have a window open, to help keep the windshield from fogging over, and using some effort to keep from breathing on it helps a lot, too. So wearing necessary clothing is an absolute--there's nothing worse than trying to land while shivering uncontrollably! (Don't ask me how I know!) Good boots, layered jackets, good gloves--all the stuff you need to stay warm.

Cary

Since I don't fly for a living, I keel it above -20C. Havr flown colder, just not as fun. Some duct tape cowl covers to keep things at operating temps but not to warm.

That plane will do great in this WX Jeffery. Just plug in oil pan heater, fill tanks, warm it up good, and come on over. I need a good reason to get in the air tomorrow.

Make sure your doors are not only closed but latched good! Had one pop open on take off leaving McGrath 4 or 5 years ago day after X-Mas....it was -35 on the ramp and we stopped for gas....talk about knowing when your wife is a keeper!! It was her door and I was in the middle of a sharp turn for home and trying to climb to the sun for some heat before I could reach over her pop the window open and slam the door! That was DAMN COLD for a while (not just the air!). So on top of all the other stuff one does, make damn sure your passengers are secured and the door is latched!

[b]The single bit of advise I will offer is to dress warm enough to go down and be able to stay warm if rendered unable to move..[/b] I did a lot of research, reading, and pestering older pilots on how to fly in the cold before I flew 1939 Piper J5 from San Jose Ca. to Anchorage over ten days. Several days weathered in. especially at Fort Nelson. Got caught in a snow squall on the other side from Soldier pass as I remember. The pass needed something a bit over four thousand and the best the J5 ever managed was 4,100 so we went around the end and picked up the highway on the far side, only to run into my first snow squall, and what sounded like a piston wast about to come apart, Put it down on the highway and waited hoped for better weather..Found and exhaust crack had occurred just below the flange of the right rear cylinder. Survival secret was to be already DRESSED to survive the worst., No time to dig out another suit. Flew back to Fort Nelson to refuel and try again. The plane had NO cabin heat, and the old rag and tube leaked spear like icicles of frozen icy air from every possibly bad fit and fabric shrinkage around weld joints. It was the only plane where we would Duck tape ourselves inside after closing the door. Ever flight fond a new icy :jet: steam to tape off, We would even go over it with a flashlight at night looking for light leaks to tape off, This plane had spent 12 years in Perch's old Flying lady Museum in Morgan Hill, Calif, The logs showed only 52 hours since a MAJOR overhaul. Only fifty two hours seem like a bargain to to the buyer.owner. Peter B. Peter had just barely passed his private and needed to get to Dillingham at the start of his set net fishing business and was looking for someone to go with him. I told him that I had made the trip in about 1976 when I flew two women of the first all women ascent of Denali from Palo Alto to FAi, Talkeetna, and Anchorage, With a lot of jury rigged repairs: and Orange Crush can and two pipe claps solve the disquieting sound of the broken exhaust pipe. The rubber insulation had broken off of many of the ignition wires so we were punching holes in the "eyebrow" cowling and tied the bares wares away from each other using old nylon lacing tape.

There is a lot more to the story but the main two items I learned in the research is to BE dress to survive a cold weather crash. The other was that a several planes survived the crash, within a hundred or two feet of a major road or highway but no one ever saw them in the thick northern trees. They did not make it.
SO - I adopted the attitude and policy that: - <IT PAYS TO ADVERTISE>, and almost used it going into
Chetwyn once. That advertising is to put the damned plane down in the middle of the road so NO ONE can can get by without stopping even if they are not able to.help, .they can always GO for help..

Hope this makes some sense as I started it after taking a pretty good sleeping pill.

Good night.

Chris.C

In the Cub I don't have a lot of room for a lot of layers in the snug cockpit, especially in the rear seat. I would take enough survival gear (W & B) in the back seat (stock Cub) to fly it from the front. Engine and cabin heat are very slightly better in front seat. I buy white duct tape, and use it judiciously to reduce the cabin airflow. Zero degrees F. is about my limit.
In Texas I would do what I do here for preheat. A couple of trouble lights under the engine within the cowl (my Cub has pressure cowl) with as large an incandescent bulb as they are rated for, then plug them in the night before. Have the exterior of the cowling wrapped snugly (no thermal gaps) with a bunch of old sleeping bags/blankets/mattress pads/whatever. Get two or three old sweat pants for each blade for the big heat sink out front. On each pair tuck one leg inside the other for a double layered one legged sweat pant. Layer them on. Several clothes pins or equivalent are useful to help close the thermal gaps all around the the wrappings.
If you get the thermal gaps closed real well, enough layers, and it is not windy, this will work outside, too.
Goodwill or equivalent is source for wrapping gear. In the summer the choices/options are better than when cold increases the sale of warm gear. Yes, I am cheap.

Edit for clarity: "clothes pins" being the wood and spring device that was commonly used in an earlier era to hang clothes on a clothes line. There are heavy duty bent wire utility clips that have more grip and hold a bigger bite that work better where needed. I use both kinds since the heavy duty ones are over kill on the less stressed areas.

In the temperature range you described (right around freezing) the airplane really doesn't need a whole lot prep work.

I like to preheat the engine when temps are below + 30 F. As noted by others, down to about 0 F, preheating an engine need not be too tough or expensive. A blanket and trouble light overnight does well.....assuming you have electric.

I would use an approved fuel additive to keep any water in the fuel in liquid state. The regs recommend up to 1% by volume isopropyl alcohol (NOT methanol or ethanol) in the fuel. I use the little red bottles of ISO Heet you can get at auto stores. The stuff keeps any water in the gas liquid, so you can drain it during preflight.

As others have said, dress for the occasion, with good warm clothes, shoes, gloves, hat, etc. Flight plan with SOMEone, with hard times, etc....no ambiguity.

Some of the most magical flights I've experienced were winter flights. I've flown regularly to - 40 and sometimes colder , but that was work. For fun, I generally limit temps to - 10 or so, but again, that buttery smooth, super fat air can be a pure delight to fly in.

Bundle up a bit and enjoy those winter flights.

MTV

I use the same trick in the plane as I do in the operator cab of the crane, both have heaters but no insulation, and aren't anywhere near airtight, and both were built by me Besides whatever I'm wearing I have a light jacket I use as a lap blanket, it's main function is to trap the hot air coming out of the heater outlet by my feet before it dissipates behind me out the unavoidable air gaps behind me. This really keeps the heat where I want it, on and around me, rather then dispersed throughout the plane. Then when I land, maybe at a cafe, I take the heavy jacket I fly in off and put the light one on for the walk to the cafe, so I put them both to use. Not to mention besides all my other emergency gear another jacket is always a good thing.

I passed on a flight a few days ago, at 3 degrees, my excuse was I didn't want to open the hangar door and cool it off as I was going to be working in there the rest of the day! 10 degrees and up I'm comfortable and even passengers behind me get enough heat to get by. That glass smooth thick air makes it worthwhile (cool icon pun intended)

I fly a Maule too, an MX7-180. This is my first winter with the plane and I'm having trouble getting my oil temperature into the green. I'm thinking about covering the air inlet to the oil cooler at least part way to block some of the cold air headed that way. Any thoughts about that here?

Flyhound wrote:I fly a Maule too, an MX7-180. This is my first winter with the plane and I'm having trouble getting my oil temperature into the green. I'm thinking about covering the air inlet to the oil cooler at least part way to block some of the cold air headed that way. Any thoughts about that here?

That's pretty routine practice. Start by covering half the cooler, then keep an eye on oil temps....adjust as necessary. BUT....in country where temps vary a lot and not that cold, you'll need to keep a close eye on those oil temps and OAT, and get on the ground if oil temps start getting high.

I recommend the FAA PMA'd silver duct tape....

MTV

Has anyone tried these kinds of things?

http://www.milwaukeetool.com/power-tools/cordless/2344

A few years ago I flew my Skybolt form Kalifornia to NE Washington the 1st of March. I used the Bergies 12 volt motorcycle pants, gloves and jacket, they were great except one flight when I could not get the plug in to work!!

mtv wrote:

Flyhound wrote:I fly a Maule too, an MX7-180. This is my first winter with the plane and I'm having trouble getting my oil temperature into the green. I'm thinking about covering the air inlet to the oil cooler at least part way to block some of the cold air headed that way. Any thoughts about that here?

That's pretty routine practice. Start by covering half the cooler, then keep an eye on oil temps....adjust as necessary. BUT....in country where temps vary a lot and not that cold, you'll need to keep a close eye on those oil temps and OAT, and get on the ground if oil temps start getting high.

I recommend the FAA PMA'd silver duct tape....

MTV

I have a ground adjustable cowl flap (3 position) and a factory supplied oil cooler cover that came with the sale. Oregon seems to have fairly steep temperature inversions on the coast (sometimes). We get "Kona" winds from the South which keeps the air stable. So climb outs into warmer air is a lesson I learned and not to cover to much, if there is a strong inversion.

Note; I have very little cold air experience, thank you for guidance.

For those in the cheap seats....
To extend my motorcycle season 33 years ago, I bought roll of (maybe) 50 feet of Radio Shack multi strand bell wire (2 wires like lamp cord, only quite a bit smaller). Two large rocker line switches (one for each wire) that can easily be operated by a gloved hand for hi ( both wires on) and low (one on).
I then sewed 7 appropriately shaped panels for my back, front, front upper arms, and upper thighs. The wire ran back and forth in each panel about an inch apart. These panels were hand sewn coarse stitching to long johns (one piece) in the above positions on the outside the long johns. The large stitching was easy to clip and re-sew to facilitate removal and replacement of the wire panels to launder the underwear.
Serendipitously, it was the right amount of wire to achieve good temps with a few layers of warm winter clothing over the wire suit.
I found out at that point in time the BMW motorcycles didn't have a voltage regulator, so varying the RPM of the engine worked well for fine tuning the temp of the suit. Just before up-shifts high RPMs would get toasty fast.
My cousins ran backhoe and not moving/exerting to generate body heat they would get COLD before long at all in the winter. It worked well, and was cheap to make, but with a fair amount of use the multi stranded wire started breaking where it flexed going to the arms and legs. I never rebuilt/replaced it, but it worked well. I am quite "fuzzy" as to the length of wire I used. You don't need a ton of heat if you have a bunch of clothes on over the top of the heat source. A potentiometer could be used instead of two big switches, but the two big switches in my lap were easy to find and change.
My Cub is without an electrical system, so I haven't bothered to make another set.

Edit:Today I would Velcro the panels to the underwear.