The Montague Paratrooper Pro I have is getting worked hard, like my earlier two Montagues, and I have yet to have any problems other then wearing out tires etc. It is what it is, and for under 1 grand (by a few dollars) I feel it is a good deal WHEN you take into account it fits in my small plane! I'm not interested in other designs that don't fit, or take more then the minute or two it takes me currently to get mine out and ride away! It has to fold and unfold super quick and easy to be practical, for me anyway as i'm usually in a hurry, and it performs that function just fine.

Just yesterday I flew 80 miles to Logan Utah and then rode through town to go to a custom car show, this was all flat pavement riding, and coming back I was hitting over 30 mph. Last weekend i flew into the Twin Bridges, rode 5 miles of dirt road to a trail head, and then rode a steep rocky trail up to 9300' (actually I hiked the last 1/4 mile, it was a bitch even on foot), Later in the day I rode all around Stanley, then once at Smiley Creek, (where i bumbled into the Glastar fly-in and met a couple who fly with two Montagues, and love them) rode up to Galena Summit and back, 36 miles that day all in all. Nothing wrong with top quality components (that's why I have the Rohloff hub) but to infer the Montague is a POS that will quickly fall apart with any use is not my experience over the last 20 years. a couple weeks ago I had a minor emergency precluding further flight right over the Lava airstrip, it was no big deal to get the ebike out and ride the 21 miles home, including the 1,200' vert brutal climb at the end, on a warmish day no less.

The Rohloff and the Bafang BBSHD both easily retroed to the Paratrooper Pro, almost ideally actually, as my chain line is perfectly straight and I hardly lost any ground clearance with the way the motor tucked up nice and high against the frame. After over 2000 miles since electrification, I am still in awe that I can easily fit mine in the S-7S, get it out and ride away at 30+ mph in 2 or 3 minutes, and reverse the process for takeoff. I landed a 9800' site the other day with the eMontague onboard, so I guess the added weight isn't a deal breaker for my little flying operation My only issue is I wish it had juice brakes, but the folding thing kind of precludes that, so I make do with the mechanical disc's, but I really appreciate the difference the hydraulic power makes when I ride my (non folding) e fatbike 16 miles today of steep rocky trail I eyeballed from the plane yesterday, scouting bike rides with the plane, and LZ's with the bike is an reciprocal arrangement that keeps me real busy.

flyingzebra wrote:I've been looking at a rear mounted gas motor for my Paratrooper. Without debating gas vs battery, does anybody have experience with any of the 4 cycle gas motor kits?

I've built quite a few gas motorized bicycles, both 2- and 4-stroke. The chinese 60/80cc 2-strokes were a good entry point (cheap) but you really get what you pay for -- they shake themselves apart, low quality hardware (broke lots of bolts) and mixing gas/oil wasn't fun. Alignment when adding the left side drive sprocket is critical and the exhaust pipes always seem to fall apart making a loud engine even louder. These were 25-30 mph bikes.

On the other hand I really liked my 4-stroke setups. The chinese 4-stroke kits were surprisingly good in my experience. The Huasheng 49cc is pretty much a ripoff design of a Honda GXH50. It is muuuuch smoother and quieter than the 2-stroke engines and no gas/oil mixing. On my last build, I did midframe mounting with a jackshaft setup after a belt reduction to put the engine power into a freewheel front sprocket assembly, resulting in engine (or pedal) power going to a rear derailleur for variable gearing. This was fun to build and ride once I learned how to shift it, but there were 3 chains and a belt to fine tune the tension before it was reliable. This bike had a nice aluminum frame with an integrated top tube gas tank. I built it with RockShox and hydraulic disc brakes (rear caliper mounting was complicated because the frame didn't have built in mounts), top speed I saw was 53 mph but it got just over 200 mpg at 35-40 mph because of the gearing.

I also did a rear mount Honda GX35 which was okay but a little less power than I like. It was a 32-34 mph bike. It had a simple setup with a sturdy frame above the rear wheel but the rear wheel had to be re-laced with a special hub that had a freewheel sprocket on the left side for the drive chain. The main problem with this setup was an oil filled chain reduction unit, it was heavy and started leaking oil after a while. I really like the belt reduction that was on the Huasheng. Both 4-strokes had centrifugal clutches whereas all the 2-strokes had a hand clutch.

I've wondered about how to (gas) motorize a Montague and rear mount seem like the only reasonable option but it would be pretty bulky and potentially leaky. I would try to stick with a belt reduction unit. Honda claims that the GX35 is a 360° engine/carb so it can be run/stored in any orientation but I would still be weary of potential leaks from the carb/gas tank.

Sorry for the thread drift!! But it is slightly Montague related...

I can only find pics of my last build, the 4-stroke Huasheng 49cc midframe mount with an in-frame gas tank:

Thanks for the motor info. 4 stroke looks like the way to go for my much loved Paratrooper. If anybody has a site recommendation for purchasing a kit, I'd like to hear it.
I'm a little unsure about carrying a motor in the 180 cabin but am hoping I can bag it up good enough. I do carry fuel cans sometimes.
It seemed like a rational segue to me. Not too much thread drift.

I use gasbike.net and sickbikeparts.com! Nowadays I'm searching for a used or unbuilt Motoped Pro, but they're so expensive from the manufacturer that I'd rather just buy a used dirt bike

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courierguy wrote:The Montague Paratrooper Pro I have is getting worked hard, like my earlier two Montagues, and I have yet to have any problems other then wearing out tires etc. It is what it is, and for under 1 grand (by a few dollars) I feel it is a good deal WHEN you take into account it fits in my small plane! I'm not interested in other designs that don't fit, or take more then the minute or two it takes me currently to get mine out and ride away! It has to fold and unfold super quick and easy to be practical, for me anyway as i'm usually in a hurry, and it performs that function just fine.

Nothing wrong with top quality components (that's why I have the Rohloff hub) but to infer the Montague is a POS that will quickly fall apart with any use is not my experience over the last 20 years.

Here is the problem for me with the Paratrooper and what you get for your money. I had just bought a nice mountain bike for my daughter at a bike store that sells anything from my daughters low end mountain bike that cost (600.00) to bikes that cost as much as cars. I had spent a fair amount of time on her bike since she was not using it and it made a nice quick ride from the house to my shop on our 8 acres. I usually road it down are rough gravel drive and jumped off a high bank for fun. I then bought a Paratrooper for my airplane and it was not even close to the quality of that 600.00 bike and the retail was close to a grand for the Paratrooper. If they had just put decent parts on that folding frame I would not have a problem but really you could take all the parts off the frame and throw them away because they are garbage. They are not worth putting in a garage sale or on craigslist because no one is going to want them. Leave the parts off if you are going to go with crap and sell me the folding from for $500.00 and let me choose some good parts that I want.

And specifically the 'bad' parts are? For the uninformed and inquiring minds. Thanks

Tom

Cheaply made forks, peddles, handle bars, shifter, derailleur. There are parts on the bike that could have been upgraded to a level that makes the bike feel and perform more like a $600.00-$1,000 bike rather then a big store cheap retail bike that probably would not have cost the manufacturer that much more. I was disappointed, others may not be based on level of biking experience.

I get ya Mauleguy, but keep in mind I have never owned a "high end" bike so don't really know enough to realize I shouldn't be having such a great time on my Montague! Seriously, the things I have no issues with, like the front shock, is probably because I don't know how good they could be, meanwhile it seems to get me where I'm going just fine. The pedals? I push on them and they move me forward, again, they get the job done, and like the other components, when they break or wear out then I'll replace them with high end stuff.

The folding action on the Montague IS THE THING......that's where they "got me", and indeed you CAN buy just the frame and put whatever you want on it. It takes a bit of searching on their site but the info is there, that sounds like what you need to do. Cheap derailleurs? Don't care, I now have a Rohloff 14 speed internally geared hub. Same with the drive chain, I never broke the original but once ebike specific premium chains came to my attention and I also really started getting into remote areas I upgraded that also. I also just received a highly rated replacement seat, but it's too damn heavy, (1 lb. 14 oz.!) versus the stock one at 11 oz. My next mod is looking like new aftermarket mechanical disc brake calipers that BOTH move, rather then the stock ones that have a fixed pad and only one moving pad supplying the squeeze. I have plenty of go but could use some more whoa.

Over the 4 th. I camped out at Upper Loon Creek, and rode 26 miles, twice climbing well above 8K. Then while in Butte later I rode from the airport clear up and all over town in the old mining district, on a high 80's temp day, (no sweat) another 20 + miles. Blasting down the hill early the next morning back to the plane was a 30 mph+ ride, with no traffic so what the hell I let her rip. Yeah it all weighs in a 54 lbs. (just re-weighed it, been a while, like airplanes they gain weight) but I still landed a new 9300' site on the way home. And still only burned 2.9 to 3.1 GPH while cruising at 8500 to 10,500', on regular/non premium E 10 mo gas no less! As usual, NO avgas was burned on this 9 hr. flight time trip, just mo gas bought at gas stations, most I paid was $2.45 I think.Only at 75 mph indicated, but I easily have a 10 duration with fuel carried so it gets the job done and lets me log more time. I love my Montague, and will continue to upgrade it as needed or desired, the frame fits my plane so well the two were meant for each other. To have such a capable ebike that fits in my bird, which still can land off airport sites like I usually do, is pretty amazing to me.

courierguy wrote:My next mod is looking like new aftermarket mechanical disc brake calipers that BOTH move, rather then the stock ones that have a fixed pad and only one moving pad supplying the squeeze. I have plenty of go but could use some more whoa.

Check out some hydraulic disc brakes, they are generally a little more spendy than mechanical but they give great lever feel and IMO are easier to tune than mechanical. Personally I'm never building another bike without hydraulic brakes unless it's a road or cruiser setup!


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I have juice disc brakes on my e-fatbike, and love them. BUT, me or Montague can't seem to figure out a way to make the juice lines work with the folding process. ""Opfer müssen gebracht werden!" (Sacrifices must be made!) to quote Otto Lilienthal on his death bed.

I think the dual moving caliper brake mod will give me about 20% better stopping power, or so I'm told. I'll also do a little research as to the best possible pads and discs. These damn bikes are just like airplanes, the more you know the more it costs you

courierguy wrote:I have juice disc brakes on my e-fatbike, and love them. BUT, me or Montague can't seem to figure out a way to make the juice lines work with the folding process. ""Opfer müssen gebracht werden!" (Sacrifices must be made!) to quote Otto Lilienthal on his death bed.

I think the dual moving caliper brake mod will give me about 20% better stopping power, or so I'm told. I'll also do a little research as to the best possible pads and discs. These damn bikes are just like airplanes, the more you know the more it costs you

Ahhh I didn't think about the complications while folding! Maybe it would also be possible to get a larger diameter disc then buy/make a caliper relocation bracket? Small increases in diameter can have pretty big gains in braking power.

I just recently acquired a paratrooper and it came from the factory with hydraulic brakes. I'll be home in a few days and can send you some pics of how they're set up

Thanks for all the great comments on the Paratrooper Pro.

I am starting to bite my lip on the price of $1,895 for the Allston with Internal Gearing and Carbon Belt Drive. Am unlikely to do more than dirt trails and not quite sure about the DIY upgrade on the PP.

Would appreciate any comments on the Allston? Thanks

https://www.montaguebikes.com/product/allston/

Blue skies,

Tom

I was looking at the Allston and did a bit of research into the shimano hub on it. The big thing that caught my eye was the jump in gear ratios from 1st to 2nd. The hub is an 11 speed with a 30% ratio jump in the first two gears. The other steps also aren't even, unlike the Rohloff, a well as a smaller overall range. From hat I've read, that hub is fine for urban commuting tasks, but is not well suited for off road riding. If that doesn't impact your intended use, then it might be worth it given the price difference. I decided if I do internal gearing, it's worth the extra money for the Rohloff.

fredy wrote:I was looking at the Allston and did a bit of research into the shimano hub on it. The big thing that caught my eye was the jump in gear ratios from 1st to 2nd. The hub is an 11 speed with a 30% ratio jump in the first two gears. The other steps also aren't even, unlike the Rohloff, a well as a smaller overall range. From hat I've read, that hub is fine for urban commuting tasks, but is not well suited for off road riding. If that doesn't impact your intended use, then it might be worth it given the price difference. I decided if I do internal gearing, it's worth the extra money for the Rohloff.

Could you simply gear it so that 2nd was the lowest gear you needed?

I ahve nothing to add but wanted to say I love this thread and I am impressed with the thought process and engineering solutions here!

daedaluscan wrote:
Could you simply gear it so that 2nd was the lowest gear you needed?

yes, maybe... you can change the drive ratio on the chainring/hub to adjust the gearing, however belts (Allston is a belt dive) only come in a couple fixed lengths, so unlike a chain where you can pretty much choose any sprocket combination you want, with a belt you have to make sure the front/rear sprocket combination, plus the distance from the crank to the hub, results in a required belt length that can be purchased.

One of the things I found with internally geared hubs was their weight. They bloody things are heavy, especially relative to regular sprockets. Ride feel is affected by wheel weight. The lighter the wheels, the more lively the ride, aside from the drag extra weight around thing. The gear ratio jump is also disturbing. Most of the internally geared hubs are made for people who commute on bikes, so flat city scapes and traffic is really what they where set up for. Belt driven ones are especially targeted for that market (no grease on you pant legs). To get a truly nicely performing internally geared hub, you have to step up to the likes of a Rohloff hub, really nice German hub made from exoplanetary materials, or so it seems from its jaw dropping price.

On the Srurmey Archer hubs, I had a couple of different sprockets for the hub, they where cheap ~$6 each and changed in a few minutes. I swapped if it was really hilly in the area. I just didn't find the hub a truly satisfying experience. So I only retained it for my novelty antique folder. I switched my full sized folder, the Dahon Espresso back to a standard setup and it transformed the bike from oinking hog to a nice riding unit. There are lots of different folders out there, they are pretty much equipped dismally with the lowest cost components they can find that look cool. When I go to Afrikaburn in South Africa, I volunteer to fix bikes during the day ( fix about 20-30 a day on average). I end up getting all the Avid brakes I can fix. Nearly always the same thing, don't use it for 6 months and the caliper pistons freeze up (grateful bike owners pay me with really excellent South African wine). Cheap components break, a lot. I really have never broken a well engineered component on any of my bikes. The XTR on my old Dean has gone 17,000 miles, no failures. SRAM red, 12,000 miles on the Scott Cross bike, no failures. Now I do waste wheels, wear out chains, sprocket idlers, pads, cables and so on.

I am again not a big fan of disk brakes, tiny braking area, even on the largest rotor. Pads overheat, even with the addition of the newer heat sinks along with the spoke windup, drives me mad on hills (this is where the hub will stop rotating and the rim still moves a bit) and I don't run cheap wheels. They squeak like old VW brakes. I still favor the old ceramic coated rims with V brakes. They will launch you over the handlebars and deal with wet really well. The point to this is, marketing has convinced most that disks are better, physics 101 teaches different. Most folks cannot do math. So the big thing is they sell the wheels and older high end components on eBay, for cheap, really cheap. So you can build up a bike for pennies that would have cost 4 figures 10 years ago. It will never break and be super light. Why do manufacturers like disks? They can machine build the wheels really cheaply. No machining on the rims, no humans truing them for the final fit. They give them to the racers to peacock around and the marks buy them. Racers will do anything the manufacturers say and are really honest non- drugged up, would never cheat, riders. Believe anything they say.

Tires are also important. There can be a huge difference in the ride of different tires, not to mention the weight factor on some. Only use gnarley knobbies if you plan to only ride trails. If your folder is for going down dirt roads, get something with less rolling friction, like Town an Country's by Continental or some of the Schwable Cylocross patterns (Rocket Rons $$!). I ride my cross bike with a very subdued Continental pattern at least 10 miles on nasty dirt trails from Flagstaff to Winona and then back on the roads. I can cruise comfortably on cross tires in the +20mph range. If I do the same ride on knobbies, well 16-17 is all I can manage and my lungs are bleeding. It is friction. Buy your tire for 80% of your ride surface and don't cheap out.

Learn a bit of bike repair, it is not hard at all. Plenty of guides on the net. Get good quality components and wheels, especially the wheels. You will end up with a superior bike. Personally I like good shifters and brake handles. Carbon handlebars are cheap as well.

Nice informative post; thank you.

Tom

Good perspective, dogpilot. Gotta disagree with you on brakes, though. Rim brakes work fine, but I think disk brakes are a dramatic improvement on almost any bicycle. I've had half a dozen high-end bikes with rim brakes (and ceramic rims), and I've got three bikes with disk brakes. Both work, but I'd never go back to rim brakes.