I would probably wait to see what the FBO or AV Fuel's insurance carrier is going to do as it will be somewhat costly to dispose of the contaminated fuel plus what ever fuel you use to flush the tank and system. Last summer the local airport had two 55 gal barrels of mixed av gas and jet fuel sump drain fuel from the fuel farm. They were trying to give it away as an approved disposal company wanted over $900 to take them both. Lots of hidden cost in this project.

Tim

A good thing to mention. Everyone gets so complacent with grabbing what they use all the time. Good to mention as it could save an accident.

I guess I did learn something since I never heard of a pneumatic vac before. I do have a shop vac but hardly use it----just a little in the basement when some water seeped in. This video shows how they work and is kind of interesting.

https://guardair.com/pages/the-pneumatic-advantage-vacs

sierrasplitter wrote:Agreed. No Electrical tools can be used with fuel. Cord or Battery powered.
You won’t need to worry about fuel contamination
The explosion will eliminate all the problems

This report of an Ellensburg, WA hangar fire resulting from static sparks during a refueling operation is telling. The plane and container were grounded. The A&P dropped a rag on the hangar floor. When he bent down to pick up his rag a static spark ignited gas vapor and a flash fire resulted.

https://www.dailyrecordnews.com/members/fire-marshal-bowers-field-hangar-fire-was-accidental/article_9d07877e-4dcf-11e6-ac56-9b119fff6370.html

This news article is based on the fire marshall's report, which I have somewhere on my hard drive... a digital rats nest.

I spoke with the manager of the flight school a couple years after the fire. He said the fire dept had to work real hard to save adjacent hangars.

Ok...appears we have a final update here...AVFuel was here Tuesday and Wednesday...appears the contamination is aluminum oxide from the fuel truck that served the satellite fuel site for based aircraft and ramp fueled transients ....truck is vintage 2005 delivered new and always on site...truck manufacturer says they have had bad metal in the past and saw similar issues...seems odd it would take 15 years for this to appear.

FBO pumped out the tanks and refilled so the bad stuff is gone...last step will be to clean and drain the gascolator and carb screen and bowl. Mechanic has cleaned one aircraft already and found the little flakes in the bowl.....

I plan to keep a very close eye on the fuel I sump....checking it in a dark colored bowl so any flakes stand out....

Thanks again for all the help.....

This is entirely on the fuel supplier. I worked for a top notch a/c fueler at KPAE during A&P school.
We did daily, weekly, monthly Quality Assurance tests on the avgas and Jet-A.
We documented everything down to the color and specific gravity of all the fuel trucks.
In my flying/maintenance career I have never seen ANY outfit come close to what I learned about fueling at KPAE.
If you are finding AL in the carb bowl I’d demand that you are made whole. It is through the fuel system.
You should ask to see their QA records.
If they balk or hesitate, call a lawyer.

Airdave100 wrote:Ok...appears we have a final update here...AVFuel was here Tuesday and Wednesday...appears the contamination is aluminum oxide from the fuel truck that served the satellite fuel site for based aircraft and ramp fueled transients ....truck is vintage 2005 delivered new and always on site...truck manufacturer says they have had bad metal in the past and saw similar issues...seems odd it would take 15 years for this to appear.

FBO pumped out the tanks and refilled so the bad stuff is gone...last step will be to clean and drain the gascolator and carb screen and bowl. Mechanic has cleaned one aircraft already and found the little flakes in the bowl.....

I plan to keep a very close eye on the fuel I sump....checking it in a dark colored bowl so any flakes stand out....

Thanks again for all the help.....

Glad a common sense solution to a minor problem prevailed.

No doubt you could leverage a couple dozen gallons of gas into new fuel bladders if you wanted to hire an attorney, but personally I'd be pretty happy with a flush and fill and a general commitment from the gas company to make it right. Considering some of the stuff I've cleaned out of gascolators, a few aluminum flakes wouldn't be super worrying to me.

You can litigate over every transgression no matter how small, or you can have reasonably priced consumer goods. You cannot have both.

agree whole heatedly

Glad things are looking up. Also, wondering if this will get very many people to make the effort to use a Mr Funnel from now on?

180Marty wrote:Glad things are looking up. Also, wondering if this will get very many people to make the effort to use a Mr Funnel from now on?

Does a Mr.Funnel filter out better then the those expensive filters on most avgas tanks? I'm surprised the filters didn't catch these flakes.
Glad cooler heads prevailed and it came to a simple conclusion though.

I'm surprised the filter didn't catch the flakes too but maybe it was installed wrong or just defective. I have the small version for pouring 5 gallon jugs and think it would filter anything I can see but can't find the exact spec's. I did pour straight water in one time and not one drop would pass through. There are bigger ones with 2 stand pipe filters for faster flow.

Found this idea on using the funnel.

Q. Won't using the funnel slow me down at the pump?

A. Yes. But you can use the funnel as a testing device if you are going to transfer a large quantity of fuel. If you are going to pump 600 litres test the first 20 or 40 litres and inspect the bottom of the funnel. If no water or contamination is visible in the funnel, pump directly into the tank and make another check at 200 litres and 400 litres. Usually if there is no contamination to begin with it means that the vendor is taking good care of his filters and you won't need the funnel. If, however, you find any contamination you are better to slow down and use the funnel for the whole refueling process or go to another source.

When you use Mr Funnel how do you clean it after fueling and carry it in the airplane....just dump the crud if any along with liquid on the ramp....? Would you put it in a big Zip Lock so the fumes don’t fill the cabin...does it dry out quickly....? For $28.00 I bought one and will use for the near term.....

I have the small one and so far haven't had any crud or water from the convenience store. I always dump the few oz in the sump of it into a glass jar to store it and it eventually gets poured in the plane too. It dries pretty quick so you could just carry it in a plastic grocery bag or whatever else. That teflon screen repells so anything should just fall out when it dries.

Airdave100 wrote:Thanks for the suggestions...tanks are relatively new and above ground ....I think Monday the AVFuel team should be here to investigate...I hope with a microscope perhaps they can see if this is metal or flakes from another material....

Since you have a ‘56 182...is there a fuel filter beyond the gascolator that should be checked...is there one at the carburetor...?

Thanks again...will post what I learn tomorrow.....

Any resolution yet?
Are you sure it’s aluminum? It could be some kind of anti seize that was applied to the bolts of the plumbing.
Do you know if they are Garsite tanks? How long have they been in service?
I highly doubt that the pump is suspect, there aren’t any aluminum parts in it. The meter probably has some aluminum in it, but they usually aren’t a problem unless the bushings get debris in them from when the plumbing was welded together and the pipes weren’t thoroughly cleaned of “weld BBs”.
Last year I saw a company trash a brand new $4000 meter in less than a minute because they didn’t clean the piping well.
There isn’t any aluminum in the filter vessel that could chafe, or wear to create flakes. The moving parts in most of the nozzles are plastic, and or buna or viton.

Well the final chapter is in...as I mentioned in the last post the analysis says the contaminant is aluminum oxide from the fuel truck they use to fuel transient aircraft and load the satellite self serve facility used by based aircraft and those fueled at private hangers. The tank manufacturer admits some bad metal got into production perhaps 10 years ago. Cause is moisture interacting with metal and causing the flakes to form and ultimately flake into fuel. Question was how this got past filters in the truck and nozzle...some suggest the flakes dissolve when they fall into the fuel and movement is present and then reform when the activity ceases.

Drained my tanks and refilled with fresh fuel and then drained the stumps, header, gascolator , carb finger screen and flushed the carb bowl. It took about four hours and ten gallons but the fuel coming out of the bowl from both tanks appears clean. Plan going forward is to sump a lot and swirl the sample in a dark bowl....the only way you can see the white gray flakes.

FBO has been great....now back to flying...!

180Marty wrote:

Please don't ever put an electric vacuum in a drained fuel bladder. Recipe for one hell of a bang.

So you are saying that the vac down on the floor is going to go bang? Not in the tank bay because the suction hose is inside?

Years ago had a friend with a 172. Somehow got some very small pebbles in his tanks and every time he used the quick drain, it would lodge a pebble in it and not close. Getting tired of constantly cleaning the quick drain he decided to vacuum them out.
He called me afterward pretty excited. He had taken his very expensive stainless steel vacuum cleaner from his business and after draining the tank, commenced in vacuuming. All was going well, but he kept hearing what sounded like a jet engine. He looked over and flame was coming out of the vac. Instead if pulling the hose out and letting it clear out, he got excited, jumped off the ladder and shut the switch off and BOOM!! the vac blew up. Luckily he wasnt hurt.

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So there is truth to ......Suck...Squeeze....Bang....Blow......!

All was going well, but he kept hearing what sounded like a jet engine. He looked over and flame was coming out of the vac. Instead if pulling the hose out and letting it clear out, he got excited, jumped off the ladder and shut the switch off and BOOM!! the vac blew up.

Thanks for sharing!!!!! And to think some people think I am wasting my time looking at airplane forums. That would make for an excellent Youtube video.

180Marty wrote:Thanks for sharing!!!!! And to think some people think I am wasting my time looking at airplane forums. That would make for an excellent Youtube video.

Perhaps you could get a long hose and a real long extension cord and do one !!!!



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How we laughed on the way to the burns unit.

Apologies to anyone who is not British. Sense of humour is very culturally specific.