Does anyone have experience with or at least insight on the newly STC'd Hartzell Composite trailblazer propellor. It looks like the two blade 80" is STC'd on Maules although there is an 83" version as well. Specifically Maule M6-235hp with the 2400rpm engine.

https://hartzellprop.com/hartzell-recei ... aule-stol/

I made the change, but not onto an M5.

It's a great prop compared to a metal one, for a number of reasons:
- responds to your throttle inputs much faster
- more efficient blade shape, pulls harder
- wider blade cord makes for a great air brake when you close the throttle
- lower weight
- much lower vibration

You need to keep it up and away from loose gravel, to be on the safe side. The good thing is you can repair a composite blade and rebuild chipped carbon / resin quite easily. The bad thing is a big enough stone can write-off a blade, whereas metal will take a harder knock to completely write-off.

I'm curious where the pricing for this prop comes in compared to an MT?

hotrod180 wrote:I'm curious where the pricing for this prop comes in compared to an MT?

I have heard that they are pretty close on other airplanes.

Kurt

The price for a two blade MT is the same as the two blade Hartzell when you figure in the field approval cost for the MT, I can't speak to the three blade. I know this because I recently put an MTV-213 (83.85") two blade MT on my M6. The MT is a good smooth, performer and saved me 17.5 lbs on the nose when I replaced the 81" McCauley. Another value to the MT is the excellent customer service and support that both John and Larry of Flight Resources provide. I saw some impressive numbers comparing the 80" Hartzell with the longer MT props and was curious about real world comparisons,

bowie wrote:The price for a two blade MT is the same as the two blade Hartzell when you figure in the field approval cost for the MT, I can't speak to the three blade. I know this because I recently put an MTV-213 (83.85") two blade MT on my M6. The MT is a good smooth, performer and saved me 17.5 lbs on the nose when I replaced the 81" McCauley. Another value to the MT is the excellent customer service and support that both John and Larry of Flight Resources provide. I saw some impressive numbers comparing the 80" Hartzell with the longer MT props and was curious about real world comparisons,

I agree that the pricing is very close. But where I think the hartzell has the advantage is when it comes time to repair a blade. No need to ship a hartzell to Germany like you need to do with a MT. Should hopefully cut down time down a fair bit.

A1Skinner wrote:

bowie wrote:The price for a two blade MT is the same as the two blade Hartzell when you figure in the field approval cost for the MT, I can't speak to the three blade. I know this because I recently put an MTV-213 (83.85") two blade MT on my M6. The MT is a good smooth, performer and saved me 17.5 lbs on the nose when I replaced the 81" McCauley. Another value to the MT is the excellent customer service and support that both John and Larry of Flight Resources provide. I saw some impressive numbers comparing the 80" Hartzell with the longer MT props and was curious about real world comparisons,

I agree that the pricing is very close. But where I think the hartzell has the advantage is when it comes time to repair a blade. No need to ship a hartzell to Germany like you need to do with a MT. Should hopefully cut down time down a fair bit.

You may not have to ship Hartzell blades to Germany but you probably will have to throw out the hub. Come to think of it, The shop in Florida can do a lot of repair work on blades as well as overhaul the whole prop so it doesn't have to go back to Germany. If the blade did have to go to Germany with that level of damage it would probably be cheaper to just buy new blade.

G44 wrote:

A1Skinner wrote:

bowie wrote:The price for a two blade MT is the same as the two blade Hartzell when you figure in the field approval cost for the MT, I can't speak to the three blade. I know this because I recently put an MTV-213 (83.85") two blade MT on my M6. The MT is a good smooth, performer and saved me 17.5 lbs on the nose when I replaced the 81" McCauley. Another value to the MT is the excellent customer service and support that both John and Larry of Flight Resources provide. I saw some impressive numbers comparing the 80" Hartzell with the longer MT props and was curious about real world comparisons,

I agree that the pricing is very close. But where I think the hartzell has the advantage is when it comes time to repair a blade. No need to ship a hartzell to Germany like you need to do with a MT. Should hopefully cut down time down a fair bit.

You may not have to ship Hartzell blades to Germany but you probably will have to throw out the hub. Come to think of it, The shop in Florida can do a lot of repair work on blades as well as overhaul the whole prop so it doesn't have to go back to Germany. If the blade did have to go to Germany with that level of damage it would probably be cheaper to just buy new blade.

Hey Kurt. I only know of one that required it sent back to Germany. It was from a small rock that got picked up into the face of the blade. Florida couldn't repair it and it had to go back. A long wait and lots of $$.

A1Skinner wrote:

G44 wrote:

A1Skinner wrote:

bowie wrote:The price for a two blade MT is the same as the two blade Hartzell when you figure in the field approval cost for the MT, I can't speak to the three blade. I know this because I recently put an MTV-213 (83.85") two blade MT on my M6. The MT is a good smooth, performer and saved me 17.5 lbs on the nose when I replaced the 81" McCauley. Another value to the MT is the excellent customer service and support that both John and Larry of Flight Resources provide. I saw some impressive numbers comparing the 80" Hartzell with the longer MT props and was curious about real world comparisons,

I agree that the pricing is very close. But where I think the hartzell has the advantage is when it comes time to repair a blade. No need to ship a hartzell to Germany like you need to do with a MT. Should hopefully cut down time down a fair bit.

You may not have to ship Hartzell blades to Germany but you probably will have to throw out the hub. Come to think of it, The shop in Florida can do a lot of repair work on blades as well as overhaul the whole prop so it doesn't have to go back to Germany. If the blade did have to go to Germany with that level of damage it would probably be cheaper to just buy new blade.

Hey Kurt. I only know of one that required it sent back to Germany. It was from a small rock that got picked up into the face of the blade. Florida couldn't repair it and it had to go back. A long wait and lots of $$.

Yikes, that sucks on having to send that blade back to Germany!

I have seen a lot of Hartzell hubs get condemned, I think MTV can speak to that. So neither is perfect I guess...

Kurt

I agree Kurt. No prop is. Will be fun to see them in action though. I've heard good things.

If you buy your MT Prop from Flight Resource, you get delivery from stock props AND the benefit of them having exchange replacement blades on the shelf in the event of major blade damage not reparable locally...also a money back satisfaction guarantee for all their STC props!
Fly safe!!

John

john54724 wrote:If you buy your MT Prop from Flight Resource, you get delivery from stock props AND the benefit of them having exchange replacement blades on the shelf in the event of major blade damage not reparable locally...also a money back satisfaction guarantee for all their STC props!
Fly safe!!

John

Does this cover props on Maules since they aren't STCd John? Just curious because of your last sentence...

I spoke with Flight Resources about doing the blade exchange when my MT was damaged. There is WAY MORE to it than what was posted as to the actual process. There was lots of gray area as to actual costs involved when I looked into it last November. Things may have become simplified since then.

I priced a Hartzell Trailblazer when my MT prop was off in Germany on what seemed an extended holiday. They priced about the same with the MT having stainless steel leading edges. If you get the MT with nickel edges, it was quite a bit more than the Hartzell. I have to add that those prices were from 10 months ago. I’m sure all that has changed as well.

A1Skinner wrote:I only know of one that required it sent back to Germany. It was from a small rock that got picked up into the face of the blade. Florida couldn't repair it and it had to go back. A long wait and lots of $$.

This happened to a friend of mine too. It was a real problem for him, just like you say it took a long time and cost $$.

No experience on this particular prop. However, I have operated the larger Hartzell composite props on Caravans for decades. The amount of field repair you can accomplish as an A&P is impressive. The only thing you cannot fix is cracks in the nickel leading edge. I had a rock hit on the face that went down to the foam. Hartzell's response: "fill it with epoxy mixed with micro-balloons (hollow micro glass beads, from hobby shops), sand and paint." "It will be dealt with at overhaul." I only ever had one blade condemn since 1990 due to fire damage and I have had a pile of Caravans equipped with them in Africa.

So I would ask Hartzell what the field repair guidelines are on this prop, if it is like their larger cousins, it would make it a clear winner. My preferred prop shop warns against MT's, only due to the cost of repairs.

The field repair guidelines for both props are very similar. Keep JB-Weld and sand paper in your tool kit. I don’t see the MT being anymore expensive to repair. It may take more time though if the blades have to be sent off to Germany due to extreme damage. The leading edges can be replaced at MT-Propellor in Florida. I spoke with them about this and they have only had to replaced a couple nickel leading edges. Stainless edges are a different story. My blades took longer than normal to repair because I upgraded to nickel leading edges from the stainless. MT-Germany also closes for two weeks around Xmas time which coincided with when my blades were there being repaired.

I know of a few Trailblazers props here locally and the owners love them. I think it may be a Ford-Chevy-Dodge choice at the end of the day.

The MT prop model used on most of the Maule Projects is a stock prop used on STC's of Flight Resource for other Makes/Models. So answer to your question is YES. If you buy the MT prop from Flight Resource, you will have the benefit of a level of support not normally available.
John

Anymore update on the Trailblazer? Anyone comment on what an overhaul is like on a carbon prop? Specifically one of the Hartzell Trailblazers? Anyone had one make it to overhaul yet or still to new? Really interested in trying one of these but having a tough time with the cost vs a tried and true aluminum bladed prop.

kygreen229 wrote:Anymore update on the Trailblazer? Anyone comment on what an overhaul is like on a carbon prop? Specifically one of the Hartzell Trailblazers? Anyone had one make it to overhaul yet or still to new? Really interested in trying one of these but having a tough time with the cost vs a tried and true aluminum bladed prop.

I am still loving mine as compared to a metal prop. Just better is so many ways, search the forum for posts on what those ways are.
Not going to be near overhaul for another 4 years though!

I would not recommend any carbon prop on small tires or treaded tires, myself, I am worried about stone chips. No worries on bushwheels, the prop is way up high out of the action.

I discovered an excellent prop shop that has been overhauling MT props for many many years. Tiffin Aire in Tiffin Ohio. They did top notch work on my MT prop. I toured their shop and was impressed with the work they were able to do. I was under the impression that it was MT in Florida or Germany only for MT prop overhauls and repairs, not so. Tiffin can do a lot, I would be surprised if they have to send much back to Germany. I saw a lot of MT blades in various stages of repair. When my MT needs overhaul it will be going to Tiffin Aire.

Keep in mind, if the same damage that requires an MT to go back to Germany would have probably trashed a Hartzell composite blade if damaged that bad and possibly the hub. Check Hartzells maintenance manual or owners manual about that to be sure. I have flown the Hartzell Trailblazer for about 10 hours now on my friends Husky comparing it to my MT Ultra on my Husky. The Trailblazer is a very nice prop but my MT Ultra is my choice, it seems to out perform it in all areas but not by much. The MT Ultra is smoother, we had my buddy's Trailblazer balanced at Hartzell to almost perfect numbers so it was set up properly but the MT Ultra was smoother. The MT seems to me to be a bit more robust but thats just me. I have purchased 3 MT props from Flight Resources over the years and have had excellent customer service. Just my experience and 2 cents worth.

Kurt